5 ms·

Front-end frameworks have a way of going in and out of fashion / support much faster than backend ones.

by tspike 8y ago

kangoo1707 8y ago
Not at all, people moves between libraries of the same framework, they will likely refactor jQuery mess into a framework, but it's unlikely for a team to move from React to Vue or Angular (and vice versa).
ivanhoe 8y ago
There was indeed a moment few years ago when front-end frameworks/libs were changing at warp speed, but last year or so I think the situation crystalized a lot. You now have React and Vue as major players and Angular competing for the 3rd place against some fresh libs... and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
- wolco 8y ago
  Every year this is said like burning man is dead. I predict a bigger react ecosystem. The slide of vue but the raise of the Quasar framework for apps. The rise of Angular once again.
- jes5199 8y ago
  yeah, you have React, but which of the 30 fashionable state-management libraries are you using? Typescript or Flow? What version of JS syntax? What compiler what minifier? oh hey, half of these just stopped being maintained without warning
- rat9988 8y ago
  I have always felt as angular was the second major player and vue the one in the 3rd place.
  - ivanhoe 8y ago
    It's possible, especially if you look primarily at the enterprise market. From where I stand (startups, SMEs) it seems like a lot of people moved from Angular 1.x directly to Vue, skipping Angular 2+ versions. I haven't been offered any Angular projects in about 2 years, while React and Vue are really popular. But it's just my perspective, global situation might be different.
    - braindouche 8y ago
      This has also been my experience. Enterprise systems really went all-in on Angular 1 for some reason (I personally suspect because it bridges reactive and MVC), and when it was time to move to a fully-reactive front-end framework, in my opinion Vue and Angular 1 are similar to each other in a way that React is not similar in relation to either of them or Angular 2+. I still can't quite put my finger on why Angular 1 and Vue rhyme, though. It's common wisdom that "If you know Angular, you'll pick up Vue quickly", and it seems to be true, but nobody has ever explained to me why. Is it the state management? Reliance on viewmodels? How they're more complete systems out of the box and can be reasoned about holistically? Help a girl out, HN.
sovietmudkipz 8y ago
Not only that but you have to reinvent SSR with front end frameworks. Why do something simple when you can make it 10x as hard but ultimately end up with the same result.
- BigJono 8y ago
  I mean, I think these SSR front-end frameworks are a pile of crap, not worth the added complexity, and I hate using them; but it's pretty clearly not the same result. The problem they're solving is not "render on the server side", it's "render on the server side for the initial load then inject a fully functioning SPA for subsequent loads".
qudat 8y ago
I'd rephrase: Front-end frameworks have been progressing through an iterative process, browsers are adopting standards that make them more consistent, and the tooling have been advancing at a rapid rate. FE is a vibrant ecosystem and the tooling, in my opinion, is some of the best I have worked with as a SE.
dotancohen 8y ago
Yes, but front-end developers are much more fungible as well.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  Not if you've built your product around a front-end framework that's gone out of style.
  - dotancohen 8y ago
    Remote workers are good for this scenario. My current employer is maintaining an outdated backbone.js app, thankfully I'm not on that team. We have one guy in the office responsible for all of it, as warm bodies with backbone experience are impossible to find. However, should we decide to employ remote workers, we can easily find developers with backbone.js experience from Romania, Lithuania, India, and Pakistan who would work for a pittance and be grateful for the opportunity.
em-bee 8y ago
you don't have to follow every trend. stick to one framework until it is no longer suitable. since 2012 i have learned to work with exactly two frameworks. i started with angular 1, and switched to aurelia when angular 1 was no longer viable. i'll stick with aurelia until it has run its course.

Front-end frameworks have a way of going in and out of fashion / support much faster than backend ones.

by tspike 8y ago

Front-end frameworks have a way of going in and out of fashion / support much faster than backend ones.

Not at all, people moves between libraries of the same framework, they will likely refactor jQuery mess into a framework, but it's unlikely for a team to move from React to Vue or Angular (and vice versa).

ivanhoe 8y ago

There was indeed a moment few years ago when front-end frameworks/libs were changing at warp speed, but last year or so I think the situation crystalized a lot. You now have React and Vue as major players and Angular competing for the 3rd place against some fresh libs... and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

wolco 8y ago
Every year this is said like burning man is dead. I predict a bigger react ecosystem. The slide of vue but the raise of the Quasar framework for apps. The rise of Angular once again.
jes5199 8y ago
yeah, you have React, but which of the 30 fashionable state-management libraries are you using? Typescript or Flow? What version of JS syntax? What compiler what minifier? oh hey, half of these just stopped being maintained without warning
rat9988 8y ago
I have always felt as angular was the second major player and vue the one in the 3rd place.
- ivanhoe 8y ago
  It's possible, especially if you look primarily at the enterprise market. From where I stand (startups, SMEs) it seems like a lot of people moved from Angular 1.x directly to Vue, skipping Angular 2+ versions. I haven't been offered any Angular projects in about 2 years, while React and Vue are really popular. But it's just my perspective, global situation might be different.
  - braindouche 8y ago
    This has also been my experience. Enterprise systems really went all-in on Angular 1 for some reason (I personally suspect because it bridges reactive and MVC), and when it was time to move to a fully-reactive front-end framework, in my opinion Vue and Angular 1 are similar to each other in a way that React is not similar in relation to either of them or Angular 2+. I still can't quite put my finger on why Angular 1 and Vue rhyme, though. It's common wisdom that "If you know Angular, you'll pick up Vue quickly", and it seems to be true, but nobody has ever explained to me why. Is it the state management? Reliance on viewmodels? How they're more complete systems out of the box and can be reasoned about holistically? Help a girl out, HN.

sovietmudkipz 8y ago

Not only that but you have to reinvent SSR with front end frameworks. Why do something simple when you can make it 10x as hard but ultimately end up with the same result.

BigJono 8y ago
I mean, I think these SSR front-end frameworks are a pile of crap, not worth the added complexity, and I hate using them; but it's pretty clearly not the same result. The problem they're solving is not "render on the server side", it's "render on the server side for the initial load then inject a fully functioning SPA for subsequent loads".

qudat 8y ago

I'd rephrase: Front-end frameworks have been progressing through an iterative process, browsers are adopting standards that make them more consistent, and the tooling have been advancing at a rapid rate. FE is a vibrant ecosystem and the tooling, in my opinion, is some of the best I have worked with as a SE.

dotancohen 8y ago

Yes, but front-end developers are much more fungible as well.

yellowapple 8y ago
Not if you've built your product around a front-end framework that's gone out of style.
- dotancohen 8y ago
  Remote workers are good for this scenario. My current employer is maintaining an outdated backbone.js app, thankfully I'm not on that team. We have one guy in the office responsible for all of it, as warm bodies with backbone experience are impossible to find. However, should we decide to employ remote workers, we can easily find developers with backbone.js experience from Romania, Lithuania, India, and Pakistan who would work for a pittance and be grateful for the opportunity.

em-bee 8y ago

you don't have to follow every trend. stick to one framework until it is no longer suitable. since 2012 i have learned to work with exactly two frameworks. i started with angular 1, and switched to aurelia when angular 1 was no longer viable. i'll stick with aurelia until it has run its course.