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You mean ludicrous? `node_modules` directory topping 60+ mb means nothing when the final product is an optimized bundle or a `node` process loaded in memory. A

by dimgl 8y ago

You mean ludicrous? `node_modules` directory topping 60+ mb means nothing when the final product is an optimized bundle or a `node` process loaded in memory. A large majority of developers don't care about this because they're just looking to get actual work done... not sure why you're trying to "fix this". I'm also not sure what you're talking about when it comes to unclean code and complicated tooling. The tooling is dead simple... much simpler than the NuGet/IIS/OWIN nightmare that is C# development. I think you're very close minded and you'll likely be stuck in .NET land forever. And that's okay if that's what you like or if it's what gets you a paycheck. But to completely dismiss this ecosystem as if it's not productive... it's just a sign of naiveté. Good luck.

manigandham 8y ago
It's really down to language and ecosystem. JS as a language and NPM as a ecosystem are not as productive as C# and the .NET standard library, framework and Nuget. With WebAssembly, C# Razor Components will soon be able to run either server or client side and still maintain the same highly productive development that's missing from JS.
- dimgl 8y ago
  I’m sorry but I guess I’m still missing the point. How is it not productive? It takes me a few seconds to get a REST API going.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    It's not as productive. Anyone can create a REST API in any language in a few minutes, that's the easy part. Building a complex app is different though and much easier and faster in a proper environment that has strong typing, OOP, interfaces, reflection, dependency injection, a solid standard library, and more. Being able to use that same environment to create frontend views and code will greatly improve productivity compared to the current Javascript frameworks and limitations.
    - dimgl 8y ago
      Yeah sorry, I really don't buy it. Strong typing is admittedly great and there are solutions to introduce that in JavaScript. However, this is hardly a dealbreaker in complex apps written in JavaScript. OOP, interfaces: debatable and unnecessary fluff. There are plenty of productive languages without OOP. Example: Elixir. And there are plenty of productive languages without interfaces. Example: Go. Reflection is unnecessary in JavaScript. You can access any property within an object dynamically and the language is interpreted, so there's no need to perform fancy reflection operations at runtime. Dependency injection is an engineering pattern. You can apply this to almost any language. And ironically, plenty of JavaScript backend and frontend frameworks have attempted to use it successfully: Angular, Ember. Hell I even wrote my own DI layer once upon a time. https://github.com/divmgl/nwire https://github.com/divmgl/nwire I'm sorry, I really disagree with you. I believe C# has the ability to be productive, but there is just no way you're going to convince me that it's superior to JavaScript and its ecosystem. There's a lot of disdain on Hacker News for JavaScript and it's honestly beyond me.
      - dimgl 8y ago
        Correction: I recently learned that Go has interfaces. But my point still stands.
philliphaydon 8y ago
Tooling like vue cli makes life easier. But this like projects in .net. Writing your own http server is difficult in both. Vue cli new project run. New asp.net project run. It’s identicle. Try to write both for scratch is hard. So no node/npm/http server is no easier than .net/iis/owin.

by dimgl 8y ago

manigandham 8y ago

It's really down to language and ecosystem. JS as a language and NPM as a ecosystem are not as productive as C# and the .NET standard library, framework and Nuget. With WebAssembly, C# Razor Components will soon be able to run either server or client side and still maintain the same highly productive development that's missing from JS.

dimgl 8y ago
I’m sorry but I guess I’m still missing the point. How is it not productive? It takes me a few seconds to get a REST API going.
- manigandham 8y ago
  It's not as productive. Anyone can create a REST API in any language in a few minutes, that's the easy part. Building a complex app is different though and much easier and faster in a proper environment that has strong typing, OOP, interfaces, reflection, dependency injection, a solid standard library, and more. Being able to use that same environment to create frontend views and code will greatly improve productivity compared to the current Javascript frameworks and limitations.
  - dimgl 8y ago
    Yeah sorry, I really don't buy it. Strong typing is admittedly great and there are solutions to introduce that in JavaScript. However, this is hardly a dealbreaker in complex apps written in JavaScript. OOP, interfaces: debatable and unnecessary fluff. There are plenty of productive languages without OOP. Example: Elixir. And there are plenty of productive languages without interfaces. Example: Go. Reflection is unnecessary in JavaScript. You can access any property within an object dynamically and the language is interpreted, so there's no need to perform fancy reflection operations at runtime. Dependency injection is an engineering pattern. You can apply this to almost any language. And ironically, plenty of JavaScript backend and frontend frameworks have attempted to use it successfully: Angular, Ember. Hell I even wrote my own DI layer once upon a time. https://github.com/divmgl/nwire https://github.com/divmgl/nwire I'm sorry, I really disagree with you. I believe C# has the ability to be productive, but there is just no way you're going to convince me that it's superior to JavaScript and its ecosystem. There's a lot of disdain on Hacker News for JavaScript and it's honestly beyond me.
    - dimgl 8y ago
      Correction: I recently learned that Go has interfaces. But my point still stands.

philliphaydon 8y ago

Tooling like vue cli makes life easier. But this like projects in .net. Writing your own http server is difficult in both. Vue cli new project run. New asp.net project run. It’s identicle. Try to write both for scratch is hard. So no node/npm/http server is no easier than .net/iis/owin.