3 ms·

I'm not really surprised all that much. Having moved from the middle east to north america, the culture is so different that I'm surprised marriage is still pra

by hasenj 16y ago

I'm not really surprised all that much. Having moved from the middle east to north america, the culture is so different that I'm surprised marriage is still practiced over here. Marriage is mostly a social construct but a large part of it is also religious in nature. In large part it serves to conserve the tradition and culture of society or a community. As social relationships become less centered on family bonds, marriage will weaken. And as western societies become less and less religious, there's less motivation for any couple to get married. This is not even unintentional. I think at the heart of the feminist movement lies a belief that marriage is a tool devised by society to control women, or something of that sort.

igrekel 16y ago
Marriage is also a contract and way to make the relationship official or public. It also make sense in that perspective to invite many people and to publish the information to make sure everyone is aware of this commitment. I find it always funny when unmarried couples with children are looking for a legal contract of some kind to ensure things are official between them in case something bad happens. They just see marriage as the complicated traditional thing that (they feel) is supposed to be forever. It doesn't have to be.
- barrkel 16y ago
  Marriage is a legal contract you often can't negotiate, and even if you can and do (pre-nup) you come off looking like an ass. As a contract, it's even subject to retroactive changes (politicians changing laws). The way incentives are set up now, there is simply no way I would enter into a marriage in most western countries. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want a means of committing to a legal contract to make things official; it's just the terms of the default contract that I disagree with.
  - igrekel 16y ago
    There are still laws covering unmarried couples living together with or without children. You are not out of reach of the law changing because you are not married. If you have no contract, you'll get the default anyways, its just more trouble. I don't know about where you are but there are a few different standard terms of marriage even without drafting your own custom contract. The situation is just less clear and more trouble in case things go bad if you are not married... and I don't mean divorce or separation, I also mean death, being incapacitated, stuck in a foreign country etc. And that is not even when children are involved.
capstone 16y ago
I think at the heart of the feminist movement lies a belief that marriage is a tool devised by society to control women. Why do you think that? As far as I know, the feminist movement is a part of a greater civil rights movement focused on equal political, economic, and social rights regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, and yes, in the particular case of feminism, gender. What makes you say that feminism is mainly focused on destroying marriage? On a separate anecdotal note, I grew up in the former Soviet Union where religion was largely absent and yet marriage was very strong.
- hasenj 16y ago
  Ah, I didn't say they're set on destroying marriage. For all I could tell, they couldn't care less. But from what I understand, they have this notion of the "patriarchal society" where the males control everything, including language, and gender roles, and everything else. It's obvious that marriage is a byproduct of this patriarchal structure. I've heard a certain feminist (who happens to be married) say on TV that marriage is an old and failed system that we should get rid of. I think this is not too inconsistent with what the western culture(s) subconsciously believe. The point of marriage is the creation of families in a social structure where pre-martial sex is strongly frowned upon, and where the social network is built mostly on top the "family" unit. In the west, pre-martial sex is rather encouraged, and the social structure is not built on top of the "family" unit.
  - MichaelSalib 16y ago
    I've heard a certain feminist (who happens to be married) say on TV that marriage is an old and failed system that we should get rid of. There are over 6 billion people on Earth. Many of those people are just insane. And television shows have an incentive to bring on the real nuts in order to keep things exciting. As such, the fact that you heard one representative from group X go on TV and say something nutty doesn't allow you to make any inferences about what the median person in group X actually believes. I think this is not too inconsistent with what the western culture(s) subconsciously believe. Strange. If western culture "subconsciously believes that marriage is a failed system that should be disposed of", then I don't see why marriage is (1) held in high esteem and (2) heavily subsidized. I mean, when I got married, everyone I knew was delighted and no one told me "this is a terrible idea -- marriage is a failed system". Why would the government give me money once I got married if there was a social consensus that marriage is a failed system? The problem with asserting things about an entire society's "subconscious beliefs" is that your assertions are impossible to refute. Which suggests that these assertions are meaningless garbage.

by hasenj 16y ago

igrekel 16y ago

Marriage is also a contract and way to make the relationship official or public. It also make sense in that perspective to invite many people and to publish the information to make sure everyone is aware of this commitment. I find it always funny when unmarried couples with children are looking for a legal contract of some kind to ensure things are official between them in case something bad happens. They just see marriage as the complicated traditional thing that (they feel) is supposed to be forever. It doesn't have to be.

barrkel 16y ago
Marriage is a legal contract you often can't negotiate, and even if you can and do (pre-nup) you come off looking like an ass. As a contract, it's even subject to retroactive changes (politicians changing laws). The way incentives are set up now, there is simply no way I would enter into a marriage in most western countries. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want a means of committing to a legal contract to make things official; it's just the terms of the default contract that I disagree with.
- igrekel 16y ago
  There are still laws covering unmarried couples living together with or without children. You are not out of reach of the law changing because you are not married. If you have no contract, you'll get the default anyways, its just more trouble. I don't know about where you are but there are a few different standard terms of marriage even without drafting your own custom contract. The situation is just less clear and more trouble in case things go bad if you are not married... and I don't mean divorce or separation, I also mean death, being incapacitated, stuck in a foreign country etc. And that is not even when children are involved.

capstone 16y ago

I think at the heart of the feminist movement lies a belief that marriage is a tool devised by society to control women. Why do you think that? As far as I know, the feminist movement is a part of a greater civil rights movement focused on equal political, economic, and social rights regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, and yes, in the particular case of feminism, gender. What makes you say that feminism is mainly focused on destroying marriage? On a separate anecdotal note, I grew up in the former Soviet Union where religion was largely absent and yet marriage was very strong.

hasenj 16y ago
Ah, I didn't say they're set on destroying marriage. For all I could tell, they couldn't care less. But from what I understand, they have this notion of the "patriarchal society" where the males control everything, including language, and gender roles, and everything else. It's obvious that marriage is a byproduct of this patriarchal structure. I've heard a certain feminist (who happens to be married) say on TV that marriage is an old and failed system that we should get rid of. I think this is not too inconsistent with what the western culture(s) subconsciously believe. The point of marriage is the creation of families in a social structure where pre-martial sex is strongly frowned upon, and where the social network is built mostly on top the "family" unit. In the west, pre-martial sex is rather encouraged, and the social structure is not built on top of the "family" unit.
- MichaelSalib 16y ago
  I've heard a certain feminist (who happens to be married) say on TV that marriage is an old and failed system that we should get rid of. There are over 6 billion people on Earth. Many of those people are just insane. And television shows have an incentive to bring on the real nuts in order to keep things exciting. As such, the fact that you heard one representative from group X go on TV and say something nutty doesn't allow you to make any inferences about what the median person in group X actually believes. I think this is not too inconsistent with what the western culture(s) subconsciously believe. Strange. If western culture "subconsciously believes that marriage is a failed system that should be disposed of", then I don't see why marriage is (1) held in high esteem and (2) heavily subsidized. I mean, when I got married, everyone I knew was delighted and no one told me "this is a terrible idea -- marriage is a failed system". Why would the government give me money once I got married if there was a social consensus that marriage is a failed system? The problem with asserting things about an entire society's "subconscious beliefs" is that your assertions are impossible to refute. Which suggests that these assertions are meaningless garbage.