9 ms·

Remembering the Murder You Didn’t Commit (2017)

58 points by danso 8y ago

danso 8y ago
Should have retitled this "Not Remember the Story You Previously Submitted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14541465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14541465
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Ha! I think it might have been long enough that it’s OK to repost this, though I’m not sure if the moderators will agree.
  - Tomte 8y ago
    It has been long enough. The submission is fine.
freedomben 8y ago
Everybody in the U.S. should read "You & the Police" by Boston T. Party. If you disagree with the author's Libertarian bent then look up one of the "know your rights" things from the ACLU, tho the breadth of scenarios covered there is much lower. For example the ACLU doesn't typically teach you how to avoid having your gun rights trampled by the police using questionable laws that vary from state to state and city to city, or used as faux "probable cause" to escalate your encounter toward arrest. For reasons like that I recommend Boston T. Party's book. The ACLU's stuff is also more sound bitey, for better and worse. Better yet, read both :-)
PlasticTank 8y ago
I have a recurring dream where I murder someone and bury the body, it's always the same, I'm quite young in the dream too. Wonder if I'm remembering a murder I actually did commit.
- JadeNB 8y ago
  Unless it's sarcasm, this seems like the sort of thing you should be discussing with a therapist, not posting on the internet.
nvahalik 8y ago
A long time ago, I was brought in for questioning regarding a murder. I was young and didn't know any better, but "I had nothing to hide". The DA wanted me to say that I knew something about it and so he walked me through the entire scene, showed me pictures, told me he entire version of where I fit into the picture and so on. Showed me some pretty graphic images of the bodies, etc. I could see how some people might be traumatized by this sort of "questioning" and simply allowing whoever they are speaking with to paint the picture and end up believing that they are in it. After all, these were people I had known. I had been friends with the accused. It's not like they were completely unknown to me. I already had memories of these people. What if some of those memories just needed some "help" to come to light? Coupled with whatever intense emotions + this sort of vivid storytelling... I could definitely buy that people would end up creating memories that don't really exist.
EliRivers 8y ago
Memory is a story we tell ourselves about the past, and the memory is recreated every time we tell the story. It's very possible to have real memories of things that never happened. We can make them entirely on our own, or people can put them into our heads. Real memories of things that never happened. Dr Julia Shaw's "The Memory Illusion" contains a readable account of doing so.
cf141q5325 8y ago
Saw an interesting documentary on the topic lately. They also had an interrogator who got someone to confess to a crime they didnt commit. And not just confess but actually believe it with the brain making up details of something that never happened. https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462 https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462 He was lucky that it turned out he wasnt in the country at the time of the murder and they found the alleged real killer instead. Cant repeat it often enough, just never talk to cops. No smalltalk no nothing. If it comes to it talk to your attorney and then the judge. The police isnt looking for the truth but for a solid case for a conviction. Finding the truth is the job of a judge or a jury.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "Don't talk to the cops" is the surest way to get criminals off and to create ghetto-like conditions. Yes, definitely 'talk to the cops' unless you're a suspect of something that you didn't do, and then of course get a lawyer.
  - cf141q5325 8y ago
    Good luck on getting out of a hole you dug yourself in before they determined that you make a good culprit. Lawyers do love themselves a client that decided they needed a lawyer after talking for hours. If you are sure you a only a wittiness and have something worthwhile to contribute prepare a statement, give that and nothing more. If they have more questions repeat the process. Once you start a conversation you are betting on how much CSI the officer saw recently and how shady they think you look.
    - jstarfish 8y ago
      Even witness statements ought to be given under the counsel of a lawyer.
      - cf141q5325 8y ago
        In a perfect world yes, but not everyone can afford a lawyer. To many people only remember to ask for a lawyer and are then thrown when its not a viable option and resign and start talking instead. Not having a conversation however is always an option you should stick by no matter what.
yesenadam 8y ago
Derren Brown's The Guilt Trip, a British TV special in which Derren convinces a young man (by various psychological techniques, using a cast of dozens) to suspect that he has committed murder, and even to confess to the murder, without interrogation or even being aware of any manipulation. Pretty amazing. (As are most of Derren's TV shows) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzTLw0Xwok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzTLw0Xwok
- dragonsngoblins 8y ago
  That sounds remarkably unethical and like it'd cause a great deal of psychological distress
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Did you watch it? He is extremely careful, in many ways... And it did seem likely to have a positive effect on the guy's life, from what I could tell.
cladari 8y ago
"I intend to fully cooperate but first I'm going to talk to a lawyer to get advice on the best way to do that".
KangLi 8y ago
Thanks for this "Down the rabbit hole" article, that led me to the innocence project, the Stockholm syndrome [condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity], Patty Hearst Trial, the SLA and the life of psychiatrist Joel Fort. You have made my day :D

58 points by danso 8y ago

Should have retitled this "Not Remember the Story You Previously Submitted" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14541465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14541465

saagarjha 8y ago
Ha! I think it might have been long enough that it’s OK to repost this, though I’m not sure if the moderators will agree.
- Tomte 8y ago
  It has been long enough. The submission is fine.

freedomben 8y ago

Everybody in the U.S. should read "You & the Police" by Boston T. Party. If you disagree with the author's Libertarian bent then look up one of the "know your rights" things from the ACLU, tho the breadth of scenarios covered there is much lower. For example the ACLU doesn't typically teach you how to avoid having your gun rights trampled by the police using questionable laws that vary from state to state and city to city, or used as faux "probable cause" to escalate your encounter toward arrest. For reasons like that I recommend Boston T. Party's book. The ACLU's stuff is also more sound bitey, for better and worse. Better yet, read both :-)

PlasticTank 8y ago

I have a recurring dream where I murder someone and bury the body, it's always the same, I'm quite young in the dream too. Wonder if I'm remembering a murder I actually did commit.

JadeNB 8y ago
Unless it's sarcasm, this seems like the sort of thing you should be discussing with a therapist, not posting on the internet.

nvahalik 8y ago

A long time ago, I was brought in for questioning regarding a murder. I was young and didn't know any better, but "I had nothing to hide". The DA wanted me to say that I knew something about it and so he walked me through the entire scene, showed me pictures, told me he entire version of where I fit into the picture and so on. Showed me some pretty graphic images of the bodies, etc. I could see how some people might be traumatized by this sort of "questioning" and simply allowing whoever they are speaking with to paint the picture and end up believing that they are in it. After all, these were people I had known. I had been friends with the accused. It's not like they were completely unknown to me. I already had memories of these people. What if some of those memories just needed some "help" to come to light? Coupled with whatever intense emotions + this sort of vivid storytelling... I could definitely buy that people would end up creating memories that don't really exist.

EliRivers 8y ago

Memory is a story we tell ourselves about the past, and the memory is recreated every time we tell the story. It's very possible to have real memories of things that never happened. We can make them entirely on our own, or people can put them into our heads. Real memories of things that never happened. Dr Julia Shaw's "The Memory Illusion" contains a readable account of doing so.

cf141q5325 8y ago

Saw an interesting documentary on the topic lately. They also had an interrogator who got someone to confess to a crime they didnt commit. And not just confess but actually believe it with the brain making up details of something that never happened. https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462 https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462 He was lucky that it turned out he wasnt in the country at the time of the murder and they found the alleged real killer instead. Cant repeat it often enough, just never talk to cops. No smalltalk no nothing. If it comes to it talk to your attorney and then the judge. The police isnt looking for the truth but for a solid case for a conviction. Finding the truth is the job of a judge or a jury.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
"Don't talk to the cops" is the surest way to get criminals off and to create ghetto-like conditions. Yes, definitely 'talk to the cops' unless you're a suspect of something that you didn't do, and then of course get a lawyer.
- cf141q5325 8y ago
  Good luck on getting out of a hole you dug yourself in before they determined that you make a good culprit. Lawyers do love themselves a client that decided they needed a lawyer after talking for hours. If you are sure you a only a wittiness and have something worthwhile to contribute prepare a statement, give that and nothing more. If they have more questions repeat the process. Once you start a conversation you are betting on how much CSI the officer saw recently and how shady they think you look.
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    Even witness statements ought to be given under the counsel of a lawyer.
    - cf141q5325 8y ago
      In a perfect world yes, but not everyone can afford a lawyer. To many people only remember to ask for a lawyer and are then thrown when its not a viable option and resign and start talking instead. Not having a conversation however is always an option you should stick by no matter what.

yesenadam 8y ago

Derren Brown's The Guilt Trip, a British TV special in which Derren convinces a young man (by various psychological techniques, using a cast of dozens) to suspect that he has committed murder, and even to confess to the murder, without interrogation or even being aware of any manipulation. Pretty amazing. (As are most of Derren's TV shows) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzTLw0Xwok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzTLw0Xwok

dragonsngoblins 8y ago
That sounds remarkably unethical and like it'd cause a great deal of psychological distress
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Did you watch it? He is extremely careful, in many ways... And it did seem likely to have a positive effect on the guy's life, from what I could tell.

cladari 8y ago

"I intend to fully cooperate but first I'm going to talk to a lawyer to get advice on the best way to do that".

KangLi 8y ago

Thanks for this "Down the rabbit hole" article, that led me to the innocence project, the Stockholm syndrome [condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity], Patty Hearst Trial, the SLA and the life of psychiatrist Joel Fort. You have made my day :D