5 ms·

> smoothness in their flows ...what? > continuous saving No problem. > and all those nicely choreographed state transitions Learn to say "no." It works won

> smoothness in their flows ...what? > continuous saving No problem. > and all those nicely choreographed state transitions Learn to say "no." It works wonders whenever people tell you that your aircraft has to go under water now.

Spivak 8y ago
It's difficult to tell the person who's writing your paycheck "this is totally possible I just don't like it and so won't do it." Like if you're doing SSR you could at least use something like turbooinks to implement state transitions.
- andrei_says_ 8y ago
  How about “that’s totally possible. It will cost you 10x what you’re paying now, it will be much more brittle and harder to fix. I personally would love to work on it, just keep in mind that any changes will require 10x the time and budget” And ... “Here are a couple of technologies which would allow us to speed up the experience at a very low cost. I recommend we try these first.” Turbolinks for the win :)
  - RandomBK 8y ago
    10x the cost!? Well, I have a quote from your competitor that's a fraction of that amount. If you keep quoting unreasonable prices, perhaps I should rethink our business relationship and move elsewhere.
  - scrollaway 8y ago
    > It will cost you 10x what you’re paying now, it will be much more brittle and harder to fix. I say this as someone who's done a lot of freelance work: No, you can't bullshit your clients like this. You may be able to tell them that if it's not an actual lie, but in your case, if you actually would endure such costs and fragility, it speaks volumes about your agency's skill levels. If you're in the business of selling websites, maybe it's time to actually learn how to write a good SPA rather than bury your head in the sand, because yeah, clients do actually want those.
    - andrei_says_ 8y ago
      Maybe I should’ve made it clear that the 10x is an example. In most cases it would be 2x to 4x, the cost for implementing two apps instead of one. Of course the cheaper option (monolith app + turbolinks and js sprinkles) could be framed as a discount. And I can imagine how many agencies would not mention the expense of maintenance, because they’d actually want to lock in the client first.
  - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
    ...and it breaks linking to URLs and backspace.
    - Spivak 8y ago
      Turbolinks? Huh? You have to write your code keeping turbolinks in mind because certain onload events will only fire once but you use turbolinks specifically because you want those things to work but want the speed advantage of not doing a full page refresh.
  - chalupa-man 8y ago
    Sure, you can say that. You will lose your clients to the agency down the road who happily use React and say "no problem." Especially once it turns out that it _doesn't_ require 10x the time and budget and your prospective client tells everyone you bullshitted them.
judge2020 8y ago
> learn to say no Good luck keeping that client after the end of your contract.

Spivak 8y ago

It's difficult to tell the person who's writing your paycheck "this is totally possible I just don't like it and so won't do it." Like if you're doing SSR you could at least use something like turbooinks to implement state transitions.

andrei_says_ 8y ago
How about “that’s totally possible. It will cost you 10x what you’re paying now, it will be much more brittle and harder to fix. I personally would love to work on it, just keep in mind that any changes will require 10x the time and budget” And ... “Here are a couple of technologies which would allow us to speed up the experience at a very low cost. I recommend we try these first.” Turbolinks for the win :)
- RandomBK 8y ago
  10x the cost!? Well, I have a quote from your competitor that's a fraction of that amount. If you keep quoting unreasonable prices, perhaps I should rethink our business relationship and move elsewhere.
- scrollaway 8y ago
  > It will cost you 10x what you’re paying now, it will be much more brittle and harder to fix. I say this as someone who's done a lot of freelance work: No, you can't bullshit your clients like this. You may be able to tell them that if it's not an actual lie, but in your case, if you actually would endure such costs and fragility, it speaks volumes about your agency's skill levels. If you're in the business of selling websites, maybe it's time to actually learn how to write a good SPA rather than bury your head in the sand, because yeah, clients do actually want those.
  - andrei_says_ 8y ago
    Maybe I should’ve made it clear that the 10x is an example. In most cases it would be 2x to 4x, the cost for implementing two apps instead of one. Of course the cheaper option (monolith app + turbolinks and js sprinkles) could be framed as a discount. And I can imagine how many agencies would not mention the expense of maintenance, because they’d actually want to lock in the client first.
- eeZah7Ux 8y ago
  ...and it breaks linking to URLs and backspace.
  - Spivak 8y ago
    Turbolinks? Huh? You have to write your code keeping turbolinks in mind because certain onload events will only fire once but you use turbolinks specifically because you want those things to work but want the speed advantage of not doing a full page refresh.
- chalupa-man 8y ago
  Sure, you can say that. You will lose your clients to the agency down the road who happily use React and say "no problem." Especially once it turns out that it _doesn't_ require 10x the time and budget and your prospective client tells everyone you bullshitted them.

judge2020 8y ago

> learn to say no Good luck keeping that client after the end of your contract.