5 ms·

> There's no such thing as "don't have to care about the details." The whole point of the many abstractions between the user and the hardware is so they don’t

> There's no such thing as "don't have to care about the details." The whole point of the many abstractions between the user and the hardware is so they don’t have to care about the details.

dkersten 8y ago
Not caring about the details leaves us with people who can't fix simple issues and with applications that use way too much cpu, memory or energy than they really should. Sure, a lot of people don't care and just want to do the thing, but if you at all care that your computer that is 1000x as powerful as the one you had years ago, but doesn't really do a lot more, then you have to care. If you care about the users of your application and don't simply pass your lower development effort on to them in terms of performance cost, then you have to care. If you want to be able to fix your own issues, then you have to care. Yes, the abstractions mean people can do more without caring, which in turn means more people can use them, but it comes at a cost too.
- goldfeld 8y ago
  Every user application doesn't have to be written in C.
  - dkersten 8y ago
    Of course not, but from reading HN, I’m not the only one frustrated with the performance state of many applications. They don’t have to be written in C to perform well. For example, I quite like using Qutebrowser, a minimalistic keyboard-centric browser that’s more lightweight than Chrome or Firefox, yet its written in Python (well, I guess the actual browser engine is C++/Qt)
    - goldfeld 8y ago
      I'm reading this (late) in qutebrowser! Mine has so many tabs open but doesn't hang (until it does), which is a fresh change from luakit (and Chrome but not Firefox, alas mine has many many more tabs open so that I don't open it anymore.) And I'm using because it's written in Python (and so easily scriptable from my own Python program.)
- askafriend 8y ago
  Performance is a business decision. It doesn’t come for free and ultimately other things might be more important.
  - eecsninja 8y ago
    If any performance gains from Moore's Law get canceled out by inefficient software due to Wirth's Law, then what's the point of all the work that we technologists are doing? You can call it a business decision, but that basically means the tech people are doing the work and making our execs rich without actually creating anything that's more beneficial to humanity compared to the computer systems of 10 or 20 years ago.
monocasa 8y ago
Abstractions are, almost by definition, always imperfect. A perfect abstraction sort of ceases to be an abstraction and is simply "the way things are".

> There's no such thing as "don't have to care about the details." The whole point of the many abstractions between the user and the hardware is so they don’t have to care about the details.

dkersten 8y ago

Not caring about the details leaves us with people who can't fix simple issues and with applications that use way too much cpu, memory or energy than they really should. Sure, a lot of people don't care and just want to do the thing, but if you at all care that your computer that is 1000x as powerful as the one you had years ago, but doesn't really do a lot more, then you have to care. If you care about the users of your application and don't simply pass your lower development effort on to them in terms of performance cost, then you have to care. If you want to be able to fix your own issues, then you have to care. Yes, the abstractions mean people can do more without caring, which in turn means more people can use them, but it comes at a cost too.

goldfeld 8y ago
Every user application doesn't have to be written in C.
- dkersten 8y ago
  Of course not, but from reading HN, I’m not the only one frustrated with the performance state of many applications. They don’t have to be written in C to perform well. For example, I quite like using Qutebrowser, a minimalistic keyboard-centric browser that’s more lightweight than Chrome or Firefox, yet its written in Python (well, I guess the actual browser engine is C++/Qt)
  - goldfeld 8y ago
    I'm reading this (late) in qutebrowser! Mine has so many tabs open but doesn't hang (until it does), which is a fresh change from luakit (and Chrome but not Firefox, alas mine has many many more tabs open so that I don't open it anymore.) And I'm using because it's written in Python (and so easily scriptable from my own Python program.)
askafriend 8y ago
Performance is a business decision. It doesn’t come for free and ultimately other things might be more important.
- eecsninja 8y ago
  If any performance gains from Moore's Law get canceled out by inefficient software due to Wirth's Law, then what's the point of all the work that we technologists are doing? You can call it a business decision, but that basically means the tech people are doing the work and making our execs rich without actually creating anything that's more beneficial to humanity compared to the computer systems of 10 or 20 years ago.

monocasa 8y ago

Abstractions are, almost by definition, always imperfect. A perfect abstraction sort of ceases to be an abstraction and is simply "the way things are".