3 ms·

Well, nowaday most people drive but can't fix their cars. Makes sense the same is happening with IT.

by sametmax 8y ago

kijin 8y ago
Yup, not having to fix your own car happened one generation ago. Now it's happening to computers.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Like computers, it varied. Neither my parents nor I ever did our own car maintenance to any significant degree up to and including oil changes. And I don't think that's a particular outlier. OTOH, my dad did a significant amount of major renovation work with the fixer-upper house I grew up in. A lot of it comes down to choosing how you spend your time and what skills you choose to develop. Because you probably can't do everything yourself.
  - sametmax 8y ago
    The cost becomes exponential though. Learning to fix a tesla is not the same as learning to fix a 70' ford.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      Sure. Some tasks are more accessible to someone willing to put in the time and buy a reasonable collection of tools than others. But even if I could, say, teach myself to build a deck or lay a brick patio--or a myriad of other tasks around my house and in my personal life, I'll probably still choose to let someone else handle some portion of them based on interest, money, perceived difficulty, available time, etc.
    - metaphor 8y ago
      I'd argue that it would actually be easier: modular, less component-level repair. The difference is Tesla won't sell you technical manuals, which are reserved for their chain of authorized service shops.
      - ghaff 8y ago
        Tesla is pretty much an extreme example. My understanding is that, unless things have changed, they've effectively thumbed their nose at the Massachusetts Right to Repair law. See, e.g. this thread: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-teslas-parts-and-service-policies-violate-state-and-federal-consumer-protection-laws.136189/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-teslas-parts-an...
        metaphor 8y ago
        Tesla isn't an outlier; the problem is far more systemic than I'd wager most realize. E.g. Helm[1] is the official publisher of OEM technical manuals for at least 23 vehicle makes--the same manuals used by their respective authorized service shops. Something happened circa 2012-2013 that caused most of these manufacturers to stop allowing direct purchase of their service manuals by the general public, including Acura, Lexus, and Honda being the 3 that I've kept a close eye on over the years. [1] https://helminc.com https://helminc.com
- metaphor 8y ago
  Cars don't fix themselves--people do. The only difference is vehicle manufacturers have convinced ignorant consumers into believing that technology has advanced so far that only a "professional" can do it, i.e. those who hold a copy of official technical manuals.
  - sametmax 8y ago
    People are happy to be convinced. They want to have their car fixed, not necessarily fix it themself. I'm a linux guy, but why do you think people buy macs ?
    - metaphor 8y ago
      Some people enjoy paying for their Kool-Aid as much as they like drinking it, and businesses are quite adept at parting fools from their money. Try again[1][2][3], just to cite a few. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/06/nebraska-farmers-right-to-repair-john-deere-apple https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/06/nebraska... [2] https://www.eff.org/issues/right-to-repair https://www.eff.org/issues/right-to-repair [3] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evmeya/apple-iphone-right-to-repair-california https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evmeya/apple-ipho...
      - sametmax 8y ago
        Again, i could link to many linux initive lile you do with cars, yet i know we are a minority.
- dghughes 8y ago
  Not only that but people these days are terrible drivers now that cars have ABS, traction control, blind spot sensors, even brake assist and automatic cruise/autopilot. They crash into the car ahead of them in multi-car a pile up and cry they are innocent. People using computers seem to be the same people mindlessly click on anything with an OK button on it. Then their entire bank account is drained and they cry innocence.
  - kijin 8y ago
    Just wait until self-driving cars become the norm. Very few people will know how to drive at all, let alone top up the washer fluid.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    Considering how much the death/injury rate from automobile collisions has fallen in the past few decades, you’re going to have a tough time convincing me that it’s comparatively bad that “people these days are terrible drivers” because controlling the car has gotten easier. Anecdotally, several people who I rode with 20–25 years ago who were >50 at the time were aggressive and reckless drivers, much more than anyone I have ridden with recently. My general impression is that such aggressive driving used to be much more common than today. Even if they had fast reaction times and good control of steering, I would hardly call it “good driving” for public streets. If you want to see this style of “good driving” try riding in taxis in China or some other developing country. Dudes with amazing steering and reaction times shaving every possible second off by pulling risky probably illegal stunts.

Well, nowaday most people drive but can't fix their cars. Makes sense the same is happening with IT.

kijin 8y ago

Yup, not having to fix your own car happened one generation ago. Now it's happening to computers.

ghaff 8y ago
Like computers, it varied. Neither my parents nor I ever did our own car maintenance to any significant degree up to and including oil changes. And I don't think that's a particular outlier. OTOH, my dad did a significant amount of major renovation work with the fixer-upper house I grew up in. A lot of it comes down to choosing how you spend your time and what skills you choose to develop. Because you probably can't do everything yourself.
- sametmax 8y ago
  The cost becomes exponential though. Learning to fix a tesla is not the same as learning to fix a 70' ford.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Sure. Some tasks are more accessible to someone willing to put in the time and buy a reasonable collection of tools than others. But even if I could, say, teach myself to build a deck or lay a brick patio--or a myriad of other tasks around my house and in my personal life, I'll probably still choose to let someone else handle some portion of them based on interest, money, perceived difficulty, available time, etc.
  - metaphor 8y ago
    I'd argue that it would actually be easier: modular, less component-level repair. The difference is Tesla won't sell you technical manuals, which are reserved for their chain of authorized service shops.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      Tesla is pretty much an extreme example. My understanding is that, unless things have changed, they've effectively thumbed their nose at the Massachusetts Right to Repair law. See, e.g. this thread: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-teslas-parts-and-service-policies-violate-state-and-federal-consumer-protection-laws.136189/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-teslas-parts-an...
      - metaphor 8y ago
        Tesla isn't an outlier; the problem is far more systemic than I'd wager most realize. E.g. Helm[1] is the official publisher of OEM technical manuals for at least 23 vehicle makes--the same manuals used by their respective authorized service shops. Something happened circa 2012-2013 that caused most of these manufacturers to stop allowing direct purchase of their service manuals by the general public, including Acura, Lexus, and Honda being the 3 that I've kept a close eye on over the years. [1] https://helminc.com https://helminc.com
metaphor 8y ago
Cars don't fix themselves--people do. The only difference is vehicle manufacturers have convinced ignorant consumers into believing that technology has advanced so far that only a "professional" can do it, i.e. those who hold a copy of official technical manuals.
- sametmax 8y ago
  People are happy to be convinced. They want to have their car fixed, not necessarily fix it themself. I'm a linux guy, but why do you think people buy macs ?
  - metaphor 8y ago
    Some people enjoy paying for their Kool-Aid as much as they like drinking it, and businesses are quite adept at parting fools from their money. Try again[1][2][3], just to cite a few. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/06/nebraska-farmers-right-to-repair-john-deere-apple https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/06/nebraska... [2] https://www.eff.org/issues/right-to-repair https://www.eff.org/issues/right-to-repair [3] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evmeya/apple-iphone-right-to-repair-california https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evmeya/apple-ipho...
    - sametmax 8y ago
      Again, i could link to many linux initive lile you do with cars, yet i know we are a minority.
dghughes 8y ago
Not only that but people these days are terrible drivers now that cars have ABS, traction control, blind spot sensors, even brake assist and automatic cruise/autopilot. They crash into the car ahead of them in multi-car a pile up and cry they are innocent. People using computers seem to be the same people mindlessly click on anything with an OK button on it. Then their entire bank account is drained and they cry innocence.
- kijin 8y ago
  Just wait until self-driving cars become the norm. Very few people will know how to drive at all, let alone top up the washer fluid.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  Considering how much the death/injury rate from automobile collisions has fallen in the past few decades, you’re going to have a tough time convincing me that it’s comparatively bad that “people these days are terrible drivers” because controlling the car has gotten easier. Anecdotally, several people who I rode with 20–25 years ago who were >50 at the time were aggressive and reckless drivers, much more than anyone I have ridden with recently. My general impression is that such aggressive driving used to be much more common than today. Even if they had fast reaction times and good control of steering, I would hardly call it “good driving” for public streets. If you want to see this style of “good driving” try riding in taxis in China or some other developing country. Dudes with amazing steering and reaction times shaving every possible second off by pulling risky probably illegal stunts.