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Wow, that's cool. MacGuyver is one of my childhood TV favourites and a classic character. I love how he refuses to use guns. And Heinlein is one of my favourite

Wow, that's cool. MacGuyver is one of my childhood TV favourites and a classic character. I love how he refuses to use guns. And Heinlein is one of my favourite quotes: > A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competent_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competent_man

eesmith 8y ago
Remember that Heinlein saw E. E. "Doc" Smith as a MacGuyver. FWIW, I don't like the Wired piece. It's a second-hand description based on the views of Gregory Benford. I don't think that the descriptions given - building his own house with an unusual design, and being a good shot - are sufficient to qualify as being a MacGuyver. Certainly there's more to Heinlein than those, like working out orbital mechanics on paper for part of a plot point. But other than his SF writing, does his MacGuyver-ness really stand out from other mid-20th century tinkerers?
- jelliclesfarm 8y ago
  Heinlein was fearless. His opinions and ideas would be ‘frowned upon’ in our times. On a diff note ..There has been some difficult concepts to swallow in his books...but also so many that were mind blowing. I love almost all of the Lazarus Long stories. The writing style and language is a tad stilted now..I guess it’s because most were written prior 50s. Remarkable mind!
  - berbec 8y ago
    I also found the Long family stories fascinating, but you must admit things got "odd" when the main use of time travel was to collect ancestors so they could be added to the harem.
  - eesmith 8y ago
    Your praise seems to me quite anodyne. He has plenty of ideas and opinions, some of which were frowned upon both then and now, some of which were not. As a simple example, he was in favor of public nudity, and thought that would be the way of the future. (Eg, the idea that appropriate dress for dinner was either "formal dress or formal skin.") Public nudity was a US subculture then and now (and elsewhere; see Freikörperkultur (FKK) in Germany), and still "frowned upon". As a more difficult example, he advocated mass decentralization of the US so that we could survive a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. He seemed to be an early form of prepper. From the low number of bomb shelters built, even in the height of the crazy, it was a frowned upon view then, and now. (Dyson, in his 'Disturbing the Universe', also points out the destabilizing effect on MADD if the US were to conclude it could survive a nuclear war.) OTOH, some of his ideas were frowned upon then but not now. His treatment of women and minorities was complex and too complicated for a full discussion here. I do want to point out this discussion between Cronkite, Clarke, and Heinlein during the Apollo 8 moon landing - https://youtu.be/b3LhFaPDeD0?t=1455 https://youtu.be/b3LhFaPDeD0?t=1455 . Heinlein advocates for women in the space program, and says that women would be equally good astronauts as men, and with a lower weight penalty. Clarke objects to the idea of an all-woman crew, and Cronkite agrees saying they wouldn't be able to decide which two would go down to the Moon's surface. I suspect there are still many who frown on women in the space program, but it's far less than it was. I give these examples to show that it is possible to highlight specific opinions and ideas of his. Heinlein expressed so many opinions and ideas, and someone who agrees with his early views that a strong world government was needed to ensure world peace (a la 'Space Cadet') might strongly disagree the view that "An Armed Society is a Polite Society". I don't know how "fearless" is a way to describe him in a way which is notably appropriate for him. FWIW, while LL was introduced in the 1940s in the serialized magazine version of 'Methuselah's Children', most of the LL stories were written after 1950.
    - jelliclesfarm 8y ago
      I think his views on nudity would have been the least offensive. Example..To Sail Beyond The Sunset was really weird and awkward in so many ways but at the same time, it is a book that I have read and re read many times. He certainly empowered many young female readers..but at the same time, there was also Friday which dealt with the difficult subject of rape. He was a feminist no doubt but he also had some antiquated ideas (like women’s role in society l and the glorification of procreation). He was a femininist without doubt. My favourite wrt his treatment of gender is I Will Fear No Evil. Was he sci fi writer or writer of social commentary? He was a legit sci fiction writer and one of my favourites is All You Zombies where he deals with the paradox of time travel and ideas like when you are your own grandparent was definitely different. His juvenile series (Have Space Suit, Will Travel) were all benign enough for young kids without any ‘corrupting’ thought seeds and upsetting parents. His stories about parallel worlds and lives could be said to border on metaphysical. His all encompassing free love themes might have been scandalous and pornographic at his time altho it might merely invite eye rolling or nervous dry laughter now.(I don’t know..I can only imagine how it was in those times) You are right about his contradictions but he had lived long enough to see waves of changes in society. (I might be wrong about the timeline of his various works pre and post 1950s) He was a military man and likely was always a libertarian. And likely an atheist. He was also from an entirely different era. But this theme was always to question authority and not accept what’s handed to you..and always strive for freedom as a personal goal. As a girl, that was important to me and to be able to place freedom over everything else.

eesmith 8y ago

Remember that Heinlein saw E. E. "Doc" Smith as a MacGuyver. FWIW, I don't like the Wired piece. It's a second-hand description based on the views of Gregory Benford. I don't think that the descriptions given - building his own house with an unusual design, and being a good shot - are sufficient to qualify as being a MacGuyver. Certainly there's more to Heinlein than those, like working out orbital mechanics on paper for part of a plot point. But other than his SF writing, does his MacGuyver-ness really stand out from other mid-20th century tinkerers?

jelliclesfarm 8y ago
Heinlein was fearless. His opinions and ideas would be ‘frowned upon’ in our times. On a diff note ..There has been some difficult concepts to swallow in his books...but also so many that were mind blowing. I love almost all of the Lazarus Long stories. The writing style and language is a tad stilted now..I guess it’s because most were written prior 50s. Remarkable mind!
- berbec 8y ago
  I also found the Long family stories fascinating, but you must admit things got "odd" when the main use of time travel was to collect ancestors so they could be added to the harem.
- eesmith 8y ago
  Your praise seems to me quite anodyne. He has plenty of ideas and opinions, some of which were frowned upon both then and now, some of which were not. As a simple example, he was in favor of public nudity, and thought that would be the way of the future. (Eg, the idea that appropriate dress for dinner was either "formal dress or formal skin.") Public nudity was a US subculture then and now (and elsewhere; see Freikörperkultur (FKK) in Germany), and still "frowned upon". As a more difficult example, he advocated mass decentralization of the US so that we could survive a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. He seemed to be an early form of prepper. From the low number of bomb shelters built, even in the height of the crazy, it was a frowned upon view then, and now. (Dyson, in his 'Disturbing the Universe', also points out the destabilizing effect on MADD if the US were to conclude it could survive a nuclear war.) OTOH, some of his ideas were frowned upon then but not now. His treatment of women and minorities was complex and too complicated for a full discussion here. I do want to point out this discussion between Cronkite, Clarke, and Heinlein during the Apollo 8 moon landing - https://youtu.be/b3LhFaPDeD0?t=1455 https://youtu.be/b3LhFaPDeD0?t=1455 . Heinlein advocates for women in the space program, and says that women would be equally good astronauts as men, and with a lower weight penalty. Clarke objects to the idea of an all-woman crew, and Cronkite agrees saying they wouldn't be able to decide which two would go down to the Moon's surface. I suspect there are still many who frown on women in the space program, but it's far less than it was. I give these examples to show that it is possible to highlight specific opinions and ideas of his. Heinlein expressed so many opinions and ideas, and someone who agrees with his early views that a strong world government was needed to ensure world peace (a la 'Space Cadet') might strongly disagree the view that "An Armed Society is a Polite Society". I don't know how "fearless" is a way to describe him in a way which is notably appropriate for him. FWIW, while LL was introduced in the 1940s in the serialized magazine version of 'Methuselah's Children', most of the LL stories were written after 1950.
  - jelliclesfarm 8y ago
    I think his views on nudity would have been the least offensive. Example..To Sail Beyond The Sunset was really weird and awkward in so many ways but at the same time, it is a book that I have read and re read many times. He certainly empowered many young female readers..but at the same time, there was also Friday which dealt with the difficult subject of rape. He was a feminist no doubt but he also had some antiquated ideas (like women’s role in society l and the glorification of procreation). He was a femininist without doubt. My favourite wrt his treatment of gender is I Will Fear No Evil. Was he sci fi writer or writer of social commentary? He was a legit sci fiction writer and one of my favourites is All You Zombies where he deals with the paradox of time travel and ideas like when you are your own grandparent was definitely different. His juvenile series (Have Space Suit, Will Travel) were all benign enough for young kids without any ‘corrupting’ thought seeds and upsetting parents. His stories about parallel worlds and lives could be said to border on metaphysical. His all encompassing free love themes might have been scandalous and pornographic at his time altho it might merely invite eye rolling or nervous dry laughter now.(I don’t know..I can only imagine how it was in those times) You are right about his contradictions but he had lived long enough to see waves of changes in society. (I might be wrong about the timeline of his various works pre and post 1950s) He was a military man and likely was always a libertarian. And likely an atheist. He was also from an entirely different era. But this theme was always to question authority and not accept what’s handed to you..and always strive for freedom as a personal goal. As a girl, that was important to me and to be able to place freedom over everything else.