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My understanding of your legal system is that before a bill introduced in the House becomes law, it needs to: - be amended and approved by the appropriate Repr

by swombat 16y ago

My understanding of your legal system is that before a bill introduced in the House becomes law, it needs to: - be amended and approved by the appropriate Representatives committee - be passed by the House of Representatives - be amended and approved by the appropriate Senate committee - pass the "filibuster" gate - be passed by the Senate - have any amendments reconciled - be signed into law by the president See http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_law.html http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_law.html for more details. Each of those steps are difficult and require a lot of politicking about, building consensus, getting public support from other politicians across both houses, and so on. Successful bills are usually announced with political support from leading figures right away, particularly when they touch on a controversial topic. So, proposing a bill with no meaningful consensus-building or public support is effectively just a PR gesture. It is utterly and completely fucking pointless when you're known as a politician associated with crackpots. Except, of course, for the purpose of getting the aforementioned crackpots worked up that "something is happening". Hence my point: Is Ron Paul just capitalising on yet another libertarian crackpot movement and actually hurting the very legitimate cause of telling the TSA to keep their grubby paws and scanners away from travellers' bodies?

ellyagg 16y ago
While I mostly agree with you, I could really do without the repeated "libertarian crackpot" sideswipes.
- swombat 16y ago
  If you've ever spent any time on reddit/r/politics, it's pretty hard to call them anything else... but, fair enough, less sideswipes in the future.
  - fogus 16y ago
    You'll live a very "interesting" life if you choose to filter your world view through the comments sections of Reddit.
  - ynniv 16y ago
    Calling anyone a crackpot says more about you than them. Please keep it on reddit.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Interesting - I guess this means reddit/politics is no longer full of "BUSHitler will bomb Iran by $NEXT_HOLIDAY", "Chimpeach the Chimperor" and "PROOF: new crazy youtube video shows FIRE doesn't melt STEEL and 9/11 was inside job"?
  - bmelton 16y ago
    As a Libertarian, I think I should at least attempt to exempt myself from what I consider 'Reddit Libertarians', which are really more 'Ultra-Libertarians' or 'Anarcho-Libertarians' than Libertarians proper. Ron Paul is a good example of a Libertarian, though he often parties Republican, in that he wants to liberate power from the Federal government and relinquish it back to states, generally speaking. From what I've seen, many Redditarians just want the government to give up all their power, and just not have it anymore, uhhhh, for great justice. Edit: I really wanted to use the word "Redditarian" after I thought of it.
pyre 16y ago
> Is Ron Paul just capitalising on yet another libertarian crackpot > movement and actually hurting the very legitimate cause of telling > the TSA to keep their grubby paws and scanners away from travellers' > bodies? He's probably not hurting it. People aren't going to all of the sudden enjoy being groped because Ron Paul said that groping was bad.
detst 16y ago
> Is Ron Paul just capitalising on yet another libertarian crackpot movement and actually hurting the very legitimate cause of telling the TSA to keep their grubby paws and scanners away from travellers' bodies? I would say it's people that call him a crackpot instead of looking at the merits of the argument that are hurting this legitimate cause. Watch the video. He's right; we expect the government to protect us and have become submissive to them. Not enough people care and it's sad.
jrockway 16y ago
Is Ron Paul just capitalizing on yet another libertarian crackpot movement and actually hurting the very legitimate cause of telling the TSA to keep their grubby paws and scanners away from travelers' bodies? Preventing the government from groping travelers is exactly what libertarianism is. In this case, most people seem to be behind his "libertarian crackpot movement", if only for the TSA.
- nerfhammer 16y ago
  Most people are in favor of the scanners. source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/politics/main7057902.shtml http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/politics/main70579...
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Most people don't fly regularly. The people that are answering that survey are not really qualified to talk about the issue, as they don't know what the machines entail, what data they expose, and what the alternatives are. Do this survey in a line of people queuing to go through one and watch the results change. Do the survey after some ex-con pats down their 6-year-old daughter and watch the results change even more. News surveys are worthless for debating public policy. You could do a poll of whether the Earth is flat or round, but the fact that some people said it was flat doesn't make it so.
    - mquander 16y ago
      The people that are answering that survey are likely as not people who vote, which is all that counts when it comes to "debating" public policy. There is no procedural rule in Congress that says "And finally, qualified experts shall vote on each bill, after appropriate discussion."
    - nerfhammer 16y ago
      The majority is so large I don't think it can be easily explained or wished away. Honestly I think you're cognitive-dissonancing here.
pdx 16y ago
Thank you for your interest in US government. I'm delighted to see a foreign citizen take so much interest. I think you would agree that the likelihood of a filibuster on this issue is zero. I would suggest that the likelihood of a presidential veto on such a bill would also approach zero. As for the whole amendment crap, that is our public shame, that no bill can just be about what it was written about, but instead, must be saddled with miscellaneous additions on any number of unrelated matters. If I could change that aspect of our government, I would do so.
protomyth 16y ago
You left out the much more obstructive part of the system, committees. I find it kinda funny how people have problem with the current use of the filibuster when it was used by the other party in the past. It is a tradition to protect the minority. Committee rules are much more damaging and used much more often then the filibuster has ever been used.
- Psyonic 16y ago
  The filibuster is never actually used anymore, just threatened. That's good enough to get what you want. No one these days has the patience or balls to actually make someone go through with it.

by swombat 16y ago

ellyagg 16y ago

While I mostly agree with you, I could really do without the repeated "libertarian crackpot" sideswipes.

swombat 16y ago
If you've ever spent any time on reddit/r/politics, it's pretty hard to call them anything else... but, fair enough, less sideswipes in the future.
- fogus 16y ago
  You'll live a very "interesting" life if you choose to filter your world view through the comments sections of Reddit.
- ynniv 16y ago
  Calling anyone a crackpot says more about you than them. Please keep it on reddit.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Interesting - I guess this means reddit/politics is no longer full of "BUSHitler will bomb Iran by $NEXT_HOLIDAY", "Chimpeach the Chimperor" and "PROOF: new crazy youtube video shows FIRE doesn't melt STEEL and 9/11 was inside job"?
- bmelton 16y ago
  As a Libertarian, I think I should at least attempt to exempt myself from what I consider 'Reddit Libertarians', which are really more 'Ultra-Libertarians' or 'Anarcho-Libertarians' than Libertarians proper. Ron Paul is a good example of a Libertarian, though he often parties Republican, in that he wants to liberate power from the Federal government and relinquish it back to states, generally speaking. From what I've seen, many Redditarians just want the government to give up all their power, and just not have it anymore, uhhhh, for great justice. Edit: I really wanted to use the word "Redditarian" after I thought of it.

pyre 16y ago

> Is Ron Paul just capitalising on yet another libertarian crackpot > movement and actually hurting the very legitimate cause of telling > the TSA to keep their grubby paws and scanners away from travellers' > bodies? He's probably not hurting it. People aren't going to all of the sudden enjoy being groped because Ron Paul said that groping was bad.

detst 16y ago

> Is Ron Paul just capitalising on yet another libertarian crackpot movement and actually hurting the very legitimate cause of telling the TSA to keep their grubby paws and scanners away from travellers' bodies? I would say it's people that call him a crackpot instead of looking at the merits of the argument that are hurting this legitimate cause. Watch the video. He's right; we expect the government to protect us and have become submissive to them. Not enough people care and it's sad.

jrockway 16y ago

Is Ron Paul just capitalizing on yet another libertarian crackpot movement and actually hurting the very legitimate cause of telling the TSA to keep their grubby paws and scanners away from travelers' bodies? Preventing the government from groping travelers is exactly what libertarianism is. In this case, most people seem to be behind his "libertarian crackpot movement", if only for the TSA.

nerfhammer 16y ago
Most people are in favor of the scanners. source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/politics/main7057902.shtml http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/politics/main70579...
- jrockway 16y ago
  Most people don't fly regularly. The people that are answering that survey are not really qualified to talk about the issue, as they don't know what the machines entail, what data they expose, and what the alternatives are. Do this survey in a line of people queuing to go through one and watch the results change. Do the survey after some ex-con pats down their 6-year-old daughter and watch the results change even more. News surveys are worthless for debating public policy. You could do a poll of whether the Earth is flat or round, but the fact that some people said it was flat doesn't make it so.
  - mquander 16y ago
    The people that are answering that survey are likely as not people who vote, which is all that counts when it comes to "debating" public policy. There is no procedural rule in Congress that says "And finally, qualified experts shall vote on each bill, after appropriate discussion."
  - nerfhammer 16y ago
    The majority is so large I don't think it can be easily explained or wished away. Honestly I think you're cognitive-dissonancing here.

pdx 16y ago

Thank you for your interest in US government. I'm delighted to see a foreign citizen take so much interest. I think you would agree that the likelihood of a filibuster on this issue is zero. I would suggest that the likelihood of a presidential veto on such a bill would also approach zero. As for the whole amendment crap, that is our public shame, that no bill can just be about what it was written about, but instead, must be saddled with miscellaneous additions on any number of unrelated matters. If I could change that aspect of our government, I would do so.

protomyth 16y ago

You left out the much more obstructive part of the system, committees. I find it kinda funny how people have problem with the current use of the filibuster when it was used by the other party in the past. It is a tradition to protect the minority. Committee rules are much more damaging and used much more often then the filibuster has ever been used.

Psyonic 16y ago
The filibuster is never actually used anymore, just threatened. That's good enough to get what you want. No one these days has the patience or balls to actually make someone go through with it.