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> where do people work Work isn't the end goal is it? The point is, people want produce and services. They use these to survive and to entertain. Normally, i

> where do people work Work isn't the end goal is it? The point is, people want produce and services. They use these to survive and to entertain. Normally, it was the case you couldn't by yourself produce and serve all the things and needs that you had for survival and entertainment. So up till now, everyone had to work and divide the tasks. Now, we can produce and serve without everyone needing to work. The end goal is still, how can we produce and serve for everyone. That will be a political and social challenge. But when you think about it on a technical level, we've never been this close to reaching this goal. Where as before, this wasn't even technically possible. The question is, will social progress catch up with and follow technical progress?

philwelch 8y ago
> Work isn't the end goal is it? The point is, people want produce and services. They use these to survive and to entertain. False. People also want--need--to have a purpose in life and to contribute to society in some way.
- lostapathy 8y ago
  Raising children, making art, creating a band. All of these give people that sense of purpose, but are not really captured by the GP post's notion of "work".
  - philwelch 8y ago
    Artists and musicians can at least make marginal amounts of money, and if you're speculating about a fully automated future where robots do all of the real work, those marginal amounts of money could end up being enough to live on after all.
- Noumenon72 8y ago
  That's cultural or individual. I felt a little bit guilty during my two years off since other people were supporting me in hard conditions like drilling oil on the North Slope, but I could have continued surfing the web and kayaking indefinitely.
- didibus 8y ago
  Absolutely, and being an oil driller, an iPhone manufacturer assembler, a McDonald cashier, a dishwasher, a house cleaner, etc. all seem like terrible ways to fulfill that need for purpose if you ask me. If you look at the Maslow pyramid of need, the first two are why most people work currently. Those are physiological and safety. To even begin to get the others is a luxury, which not everyone can afford today. You first need a surplus of produce and services that are required to your physiological and safety needs, before you can start to focus on the others. Here's the pyramid for reference: https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-hierachy-of-needs-min.jpg https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-hierachy-of-needs-mi... You can see the last three are love and belonging. Which requires free time to fulfill, time off work, which you can spend with friends, familly, at social events, etc. Esteem, which is what you're talking about, and requires that you are doing something with prestige and recognition, that feels challenging to you and accomplishing when done. Generally, for this, you will need money and time again. Such as being able to afford education, classes, lessons, equipment, etc. Finally, self-actualization requires the most luxury, but also discipline, to perfect your endeavours in a creative and innovative way. Now, it's also important to keep in mind, this pyramid has no scientific basis. And a lot of psychologists critique it by pointing out that often times, what you need is defined by how you were raised and what society's culture dictates. Wikipedia says: > The needs and drives of those in individualistic societies tend to be more self-centered than those in collectivist societies, focusing on improvement of the self, with self-actualization being the apex of self-improvement. In collectivist societies, the needs of acceptance and community will outweigh the needs for freedom and individuality. Also, Maslow only studied a limited number of people, which could all be considered high achiever. It's not clear that everyone truly cares to accomplish as much, and needs to fill any sort of contribution to society. > Maslow studied what he called the master race of people such as Albert Einstein, Jane Addams, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Frederick Douglass rather than mentally ill or neurotic people, writing that "the study of crippled, stunted, immature, and unhealthy specimens can yield only a cripple psychology and a cripple philosophy."[5]:236 Maslow studied the healthiest 1% of the college student population.
  - philwelch 8y ago
    > Absolutely, and being an oil driller, an iPhone manufacturer assembler, a McDonald cashier, a dishwasher, a house cleaner, etc. all seem like terrible ways to fulfill that need for purpose if you ask me. This is straight-up classism. Working class people can and do take pride and satisfaction in working for a living instead of living on the dole, and there’s nothing unnatural or wrong about that.

philwelch 8y ago

> Work isn't the end goal is it? The point is, people want produce and services. They use these to survive and to entertain. False. People also want--need--to have a purpose in life and to contribute to society in some way.

lostapathy 8y ago
Raising children, making art, creating a band. All of these give people that sense of purpose, but are not really captured by the GP post's notion of "work".
- philwelch 8y ago
  Artists and musicians can at least make marginal amounts of money, and if you're speculating about a fully automated future where robots do all of the real work, those marginal amounts of money could end up being enough to live on after all.
Noumenon72 8y ago
That's cultural or individual. I felt a little bit guilty during my two years off since other people were supporting me in hard conditions like drilling oil on the North Slope, but I could have continued surfing the web and kayaking indefinitely.
didibus 8y ago
Absolutely, and being an oil driller, an iPhone manufacturer assembler, a McDonald cashier, a dishwasher, a house cleaner, etc. all seem like terrible ways to fulfill that need for purpose if you ask me. If you look at the Maslow pyramid of need, the first two are why most people work currently. Those are physiological and safety. To even begin to get the others is a luxury, which not everyone can afford today. You first need a surplus of produce and services that are required to your physiological and safety needs, before you can start to focus on the others. Here's the pyramid for reference: https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-hierachy-of-needs-min.jpg https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-hierachy-of-needs-mi... You can see the last three are love and belonging. Which requires free time to fulfill, time off work, which you can spend with friends, familly, at social events, etc. Esteem, which is what you're talking about, and requires that you are doing something with prestige and recognition, that feels challenging to you and accomplishing when done. Generally, for this, you will need money and time again. Such as being able to afford education, classes, lessons, equipment, etc. Finally, self-actualization requires the most luxury, but also discipline, to perfect your endeavours in a creative and innovative way. Now, it's also important to keep in mind, this pyramid has no scientific basis. And a lot of psychologists critique it by pointing out that often times, what you need is defined by how you were raised and what society's culture dictates. Wikipedia says: > The needs and drives of those in individualistic societies tend to be more self-centered than those in collectivist societies, focusing on improvement of the self, with self-actualization being the apex of self-improvement. In collectivist societies, the needs of acceptance and community will outweigh the needs for freedom and individuality. Also, Maslow only studied a limited number of people, which could all be considered high achiever. It's not clear that everyone truly cares to accomplish as much, and needs to fill any sort of contribution to society. > Maslow studied what he called the master race of people such as Albert Einstein, Jane Addams, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Frederick Douglass rather than mentally ill or neurotic people, writing that "the study of crippled, stunted, immature, and unhealthy specimens can yield only a cripple psychology and a cripple philosophy."[5]:236 Maslow studied the healthiest 1% of the college student population.
- philwelch 8y ago
  > Absolutely, and being an oil driller, an iPhone manufacturer assembler, a McDonald cashier, a dishwasher, a house cleaner, etc. all seem like terrible ways to fulfill that need for purpose if you ask me. This is straight-up classism. Working class people can and do take pride and satisfaction in working for a living instead of living on the dole, and there’s nothing unnatural or wrong about that.