4 ms·

I would not be surprised if this was true, or at least had a significant amount of truth to it. It reminds me of the Zimmermann telegram that brought the US in

by Svip 8y ago

I would not be surprised if this was true, or at least had a significant amount of truth to it. It reminds me of the Zimmermann telegram that brought the US into WW1. The UK and the US both knew that Mexico was not going to help Germany (what with a Mexican revolution going on and all that), but the telegram was a convenient enough excuse for the US to join the war in Europe anyway. The parallel here is that the US and UK are both waiting for the enemy to make a huge blunder (Germany trying to get Mexico to attack the US, or Japan attacking Pearl Harbor). Getting the US into the war was one of the top priorities of Churchill's government. And Roosevelt really wanted to help (the Lend-Lease among other things). So this information, that Japan is about to attack, comes along, why would you stop it? Plus; how would you stop it? You can argue that revealing it was about to happen publicly would be enough for President Roosevelt to argue a war against Japan. But maybe he felt if Japan actually got to attack, he could also argue for a war against Germany?

darkpuma 8y ago
> "Plus; how would you stop it?" Well the primary targets, the carriers, weren't present. That was fortunate for America, to put it lightly. With the carriers missing, the attacking Japanese pilots focused their attacks on Battleship Row, against which they did severe damage. It should be noted however that after the first attack wave, the USN managed to put up very dense anti-aircraft fire that impeded the Japanese attackers and probably saved thousands of American lives. If the Americans at Pearl Harbor had been given even just an hour of warning before the first attack wave, they would have been in a much better position (the anti-aircraft fire they could have organized before the first wave would have been even more effective than what they managed to muster after the first wave.) If you're interested in the details of the battle, this youtube video is exceptional: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI
- dmix 8y ago
  The US broke the Japanese crypto and naval signals well before the war. I’m curious how they missed the boat (no pun intended) on the massive attack. I vaguely remember the radio operators mistaking it as nothing which delayed the defences - as the hundreds of aircrafts came into view on radar. But beyond that how could they not have intercepted the planning beforehand? I’m not suggesting a conspiracy just curious.
  - thatswrong0 8y ago
    Im reading this currently: https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japanese-did-it https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japane... According to this, their crypto was not completely broken, and the Japanese were very careful in shrouding their shift in strategy and attack plan from both the radios and other forms of communications.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    The Opana Radar Site on the north corner of the island detected the Japanese aircraft approaching, and the radar operators there reported it to their command. However this report was confused for a formation of B-17s that was scheduled to arrive from that general direction. The size of the detected formation, which might have revealed the confusion, was not properly communicated. This incident was a subplot in the 1970 film Tora! Tora! Tora!, which may be where you heard it.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    Radio silence. There was no need to signal instructions to the attack force en route as everything was carefully planned in advance. Likewise, no need for the attack force to report until after the attack.
- codeduck 8y ago
  The ironic thing is that US Radar stations picked up the incoming Japanese aircraft while they were still miles offshore - but believed they were a flight of B-17's that were arriving from the mainland.

by Svip 8y ago

darkpuma 8y ago

> "Plus; how would you stop it?" Well the primary targets, the carriers, weren't present. That was fortunate for America, to put it lightly. With the carriers missing, the attacking Japanese pilots focused their attacks on Battleship Row, against which they did severe damage. It should be noted however that after the first attack wave, the USN managed to put up very dense anti-aircraft fire that impeded the Japanese attackers and probably saved thousands of American lives. If the Americans at Pearl Harbor had been given even just an hour of warning before the first attack wave, they would have been in a much better position (the anti-aircraft fire they could have organized before the first wave would have been even more effective than what they managed to muster after the first wave.) If you're interested in the details of the battle, this youtube video is exceptional: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI

dmix 8y ago
The US broke the Japanese crypto and naval signals well before the war. I’m curious how they missed the boat (no pun intended) on the massive attack. I vaguely remember the radio operators mistaking it as nothing which delayed the defences - as the hundreds of aircrafts came into view on radar. But beyond that how could they not have intercepted the planning beforehand? I’m not suggesting a conspiracy just curious.
- thatswrong0 8y ago
  Im reading this currently: https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japanese-did-it https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japane... According to this, their crypto was not completely broken, and the Japanese were very careful in shrouding their shift in strategy and attack plan from both the radios and other forms of communications.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  The Opana Radar Site on the north corner of the island detected the Japanese aircraft approaching, and the radar operators there reported it to their command. However this report was confused for a formation of B-17s that was scheduled to arrive from that general direction. The size of the detected formation, which might have revealed the confusion, was not properly communicated. This incident was a subplot in the 1970 film Tora! Tora! Tora!, which may be where you heard it.
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  Radio silence. There was no need to signal instructions to the attack force en route as everything was carefully planned in advance. Likewise, no need for the attack force to report until after the attack.
codeduck 8y ago
The ironic thing is that US Radar stations picked up the incoming Japanese aircraft while they were still miles offshore - but believed they were a flight of B-17's that were arriving from the mainland.