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> “History,” Churchill himself said, “will judge me kindly, because I intend to write it myself.” He did, penning a multi-volume history of World War Two, and w

> “History,” Churchill himself said, “will judge me kindly, because I intend to write it myself.” He did, penning a multi-volume history of World War Two, and won the Nobel Prize for Literature for his self-serving fictions. One of my favorite conspiracy theories is the idea that Churchill and Roosevelt conspired to allow the attack at Pearl Harbor to occur. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge...

Svip 8y ago
I would not be surprised if this was true, or at least had a significant amount of truth to it. It reminds me of the Zimmermann telegram that brought the US into WW1. The UK and the US both knew that Mexico was not going to help Germany (what with a Mexican revolution going on and all that), but the telegram was a convenient enough excuse for the US to join the war in Europe anyway. The parallel here is that the US and UK are both waiting for the enemy to make a huge blunder (Germany trying to get Mexico to attack the US, or Japan attacking Pearl Harbor). Getting the US into the war was one of the top priorities of Churchill's government. And Roosevelt really wanted to help (the Lend-Lease among other things). So this information, that Japan is about to attack, comes along, why would you stop it? Plus; how would you stop it? You can argue that revealing it was about to happen publicly would be enough for President Roosevelt to argue a war against Japan. But maybe he felt if Japan actually got to attack, he could also argue for a war against Germany?
- darkpuma 8y ago
  > "Plus; how would you stop it?" Well the primary targets, the carriers, weren't present. That was fortunate for America, to put it lightly. With the carriers missing, the attacking Japanese pilots focused their attacks on Battleship Row, against which they did severe damage. It should be noted however that after the first attack wave, the USN managed to put up very dense anti-aircraft fire that impeded the Japanese attackers and probably saved thousands of American lives. If the Americans at Pearl Harbor had been given even just an hour of warning before the first attack wave, they would have been in a much better position (the anti-aircraft fire they could have organized before the first wave would have been even more effective than what they managed to muster after the first wave.) If you're interested in the details of the battle, this youtube video is exceptional: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI
  - dmix 8y ago
    The US broke the Japanese crypto and naval signals well before the war. I’m curious how they missed the boat (no pun intended) on the massive attack. I vaguely remember the radio operators mistaking it as nothing which delayed the defences - as the hundreds of aircrafts came into view on radar. But beyond that how could they not have intercepted the planning beforehand? I’m not suggesting a conspiracy just curious.
    - thatswrong0 8y ago
      Im reading this currently: https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japanese-did-it https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japane... According to this, their crypto was not completely broken, and the Japanese were very careful in shrouding their shift in strategy and attack plan from both the radios and other forms of communications.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      The Opana Radar Site on the north corner of the island detected the Japanese aircraft approaching, and the radar operators there reported it to their command. However this report was confused for a formation of B-17s that was scheduled to arrive from that general direction. The size of the detected formation, which might have revealed the confusion, was not properly communicated. This incident was a subplot in the 1970 film Tora! Tora! Tora!, which may be where you heard it.
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      Radio silence. There was no need to signal instructions to the attack force en route as everything was carefully planned in advance. Likewise, no need for the attack force to report until after the attack.
  - codeduck 8y ago
    The ironic thing is that US Radar stations picked up the incoming Japanese aircraft while they were still miles offshore - but believed they were a flight of B-17's that were arriving from the mainland.
darkpuma 8y ago
It's an interesting hypothesis. Isolationism was a popular position in America before Pearl Harbor, to the extent that in his 1940 campaign FDR promised he wouldn't enter into a foreign war if he was reelected. And true to his word, after he was reelected America did not declare war on Germany despite many in the press demanding it. Eventually, after Pearl Harbor, it was Germany who declared war on America, not the other way around. After that isolationists in America were quickly silenced. To these isolationists, America declaring war on Germany was one thing but Germany declaring war on America was quite another. Prominent isolationist Charles Lindbergh even sought to sign up for the USAAF in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. His request was denied by the White House, but he nevertheless helped train American pilots and even flew combat missions as a civilian (which is a bit strange.) It's a very interesting corner of history.
- lucas_membrane 8y ago
  >> flew combat missions as a civilian (which is a bit strange.) While a civilian, he flew solo missions as a fighter pilot and engaged the enemy. We have a term for this nowadays, "illegal combatant."
  - mdekkers 8y ago
    We have a term for this nowadays, "illegal combatant." It's only illegal if the other side do it.
Gpetrium 8y ago
I would not be surprised if that was the case since the US was quite isolationist at the time. It would take quite a bit to get the population's buy-in for a war. A direct attack seems to be like a needed pretext.
- mcguire 8y ago
  Dan Carlin points out (in his current podcast series "Supernova in the East") that while the US was largely against going to war, it supported the sanctions against Japan (due to their behavior in China). Those sanctions are why Japan went to war.
patrickg_zill 8y ago
Lindbergh was excoriated for his position. However in retrospect he was more correct than he is given credit for.

Svip 8y ago

I would not be surprised if this was true, or at least had a significant amount of truth to it. It reminds me of the Zimmermann telegram that brought the US into WW1. The UK and the US both knew that Mexico was not going to help Germany (what with a Mexican revolution going on and all that), but the telegram was a convenient enough excuse for the US to join the war in Europe anyway. The parallel here is that the US and UK are both waiting for the enemy to make a huge blunder (Germany trying to get Mexico to attack the US, or Japan attacking Pearl Harbor). Getting the US into the war was one of the top priorities of Churchill's government. And Roosevelt really wanted to help (the Lend-Lease among other things). So this information, that Japan is about to attack, comes along, why would you stop it? Plus; how would you stop it? You can argue that revealing it was about to happen publicly would be enough for President Roosevelt to argue a war against Japan. But maybe he felt if Japan actually got to attack, he could also argue for a war against Germany?

darkpuma 8y ago
> "Plus; how would you stop it?" Well the primary targets, the carriers, weren't present. That was fortunate for America, to put it lightly. With the carriers missing, the attacking Japanese pilots focused their attacks on Battleship Row, against which they did severe damage. It should be noted however that after the first attack wave, the USN managed to put up very dense anti-aircraft fire that impeded the Japanese attackers and probably saved thousands of American lives. If the Americans at Pearl Harbor had been given even just an hour of warning before the first attack wave, they would have been in a much better position (the anti-aircraft fire they could have organized before the first wave would have been even more effective than what they managed to muster after the first wave.) If you're interested in the details of the battle, this youtube video is exceptional: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI
- dmix 8y ago
  The US broke the Japanese crypto and naval signals well before the war. I’m curious how they missed the boat (no pun intended) on the massive attack. I vaguely remember the radio operators mistaking it as nothing which delayed the defences - as the hundreds of aircrafts came into view on radar. But beyond that how could they not have intercepted the planning beforehand? I’m not suggesting a conspiracy just curious.
  - thatswrong0 8y ago
    Im reading this currently: https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japanese-did-it https://m.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2009-12/how-japane... According to this, their crypto was not completely broken, and the Japanese were very careful in shrouding their shift in strategy and attack plan from both the radios and other forms of communications.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    The Opana Radar Site on the north corner of the island detected the Japanese aircraft approaching, and the radar operators there reported it to their command. However this report was confused for a formation of B-17s that was scheduled to arrive from that general direction. The size of the detected formation, which might have revealed the confusion, was not properly communicated. This incident was a subplot in the 1970 film Tora! Tora! Tora!, which may be where you heard it.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    Radio silence. There was no need to signal instructions to the attack force en route as everything was carefully planned in advance. Likewise, no need for the attack force to report until after the attack.
- codeduck 8y ago
  The ironic thing is that US Radar stations picked up the incoming Japanese aircraft while they were still miles offshore - but believed they were a flight of B-17's that were arriving from the mainland.

darkpuma 8y ago

It's an interesting hypothesis. Isolationism was a popular position in America before Pearl Harbor, to the extent that in his 1940 campaign FDR promised he wouldn't enter into a foreign war if he was reelected. And true to his word, after he was reelected America did not declare war on Germany despite many in the press demanding it. Eventually, after Pearl Harbor, it was Germany who declared war on America, not the other way around. After that isolationists in America were quickly silenced. To these isolationists, America declaring war on Germany was one thing but Germany declaring war on America was quite another. Prominent isolationist Charles Lindbergh even sought to sign up for the USAAF in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. His request was denied by the White House, but he nevertheless helped train American pilots and even flew combat missions as a civilian (which is a bit strange.) It's a very interesting corner of history.

lucas_membrane 8y ago
>> flew combat missions as a civilian (which is a bit strange.) While a civilian, he flew solo missions as a fighter pilot and engaged the enemy. We have a term for this nowadays, "illegal combatant."
- mdekkers 8y ago
  We have a term for this nowadays, "illegal combatant." It's only illegal if the other side do it.

Gpetrium 8y ago

I would not be surprised if that was the case since the US was quite isolationist at the time. It would take quite a bit to get the population's buy-in for a war. A direct attack seems to be like a needed pretext.

mcguire 8y ago
Dan Carlin points out (in his current podcast series "Supernova in the East") that while the US was largely against going to war, it supported the sanctions against Japan (due to their behavior in China). Those sanctions are why Japan went to war.

patrickg_zill 8y ago

Lindbergh was excoriated for his position. However in retrospect he was more correct than he is given credit for.