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> But, from a non-European perspective, Europe doesn’t seem to be doing well? It seems the EU is slowly disintegrating, and the monetary union isn’t working. Al

> But, from a non-European perspective, Europe doesn’t seem to be doing well? It seems the EU is slowly disintegrating, and the monetary union isn’t working. Also the political landscape seems to be in turmoil as well. The purpose of the EU is to prevent war. The EU hasn't had a war in 75 years. That is the longest that Europe hasn't been at war in its recorded history.

toasterlovin 8y ago
Is your take that the EU, and not nuclear weapons, is the driving force behind the European peace since 1945?
- pbiggar 8y ago
  Porque no los dos?
- iguy 8y ago
  I'd wager that even without nuclear weapons, dividing Germany in half and keeping half a million or so foreign soldiers there for 50 years would have been pretty effective at keeping the peace.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    The feasibility of that depends on the stability brought about by nuclear weapons, though, no?
    - iguy 8y ago
      Perhaps. It's possible a cold stalemate between the two non-nuclear armies would have lasted a while, I don't think there was much enthusiasm for full-scale fighting.
- repolfx 8y ago
  The EU didn't even formally exist until the early 1990s, before then it was just an overgrown trade federation. The EU is if anything a force against peace, as it takes a totalitarian "you obey us on everything or we work with you on nothing" approach which may appear to create temporary peace, but only by suppressing dissent. The USSR was also by this approach very "peaceful".
cc439 8y ago
Are the balkans not part of what has traditionally been considered Europe? I seem to recall a little conflict involving ethnic cleansing back in the late 90's... Also, I understand that Russia is considered less and less "European" with each passing year but the Ukraine and Russia (or at least all of its centers of power) are located within the European continent by definition. There's also the issue of the IRA's war against Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole, while that conflict doesn't meet the commonly agreed definition of "traditional warfare", it was the very template every modern insurgency bases itself upon. In a sense that was a war by any modern definition since traditional warfare seems to have become a relic of the past.
- pbiggar 8y ago
  Balkans were not part of the EU when that conflict happened in the 90s. The EU was a necessary prerequisite of the peace process in northern Ireland, as is being brought into sharp focus now With Brexit.

toasterlovin 8y ago

Is your take that the EU, and not nuclear weapons, is the driving force behind the European peace since 1945?

pbiggar 8y ago
Porque no los dos?
iguy 8y ago
I'd wager that even without nuclear weapons, dividing Germany in half and keeping half a million or so foreign soldiers there for 50 years would have been pretty effective at keeping the peace.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  The feasibility of that depends on the stability brought about by nuclear weapons, though, no?
  - iguy 8y ago
    Perhaps. It's possible a cold stalemate between the two non-nuclear armies would have lasted a while, I don't think there was much enthusiasm for full-scale fighting.
repolfx 8y ago
The EU didn't even formally exist until the early 1990s, before then it was just an overgrown trade federation. The EU is if anything a force against peace, as it takes a totalitarian "you obey us on everything or we work with you on nothing" approach which may appear to create temporary peace, but only by suppressing dissent. The USSR was also by this approach very "peaceful".

cc439 8y ago

Are the balkans not part of what has traditionally been considered Europe? I seem to recall a little conflict involving ethnic cleansing back in the late 90's... Also, I understand that Russia is considered less and less "European" with each passing year but the Ukraine and Russia (or at least all of its centers of power) are located within the European continent by definition. There's also the issue of the IRA's war against Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole, while that conflict doesn't meet the commonly agreed definition of "traditional warfare", it was the very template every modern insurgency bases itself upon. In a sense that was a war by any modern definition since traditional warfare seems to have become a relic of the past.

pbiggar 8y ago
Balkans were not part of the EU when that conflict happened in the 90s. The EU was a necessary prerequisite of the peace process in northern Ireland, as is being brought into sharp focus now With Brexit.