5 ms·

If I register a domain, can google boot me off it at a later year if they don't like my politics? Or do I own the domain with the continuing option to re-regis

If I register a domain, can google boot me off it at a later year if they don't like my politics? Or do I own the domain with the continuing option to re-register it or transfer to another domain registrar? Does google ultimately own the domains and simply lease them to me with no guaranteed option to continue?

OkGoDoIt 8y ago
Along those lines, if Google decides I’m a bot or nefarious developer as seems to mistakenly happen on occasion judging from recent hacker news posts, will I then lose my domain name? Or at least access to it? At this point tying any major asset solely to a Google account feels risky.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  But don't worry, if a mistake happens, I'm sure you can just call Google's customer service and get it straightened out. Ha!
  - chipperyman573 8y ago
    Paid google products, like google domains, have a 24-hour helpline https://domains.google.com/contactus https://domains.google.com/contactus I've heard that if you call during the day you get someone who's actually competent, not just some T1 support person.
    - peterhadlaw 8y ago
      Doesn't matter the level of support, the CEO of Cloudflare was involved and still ended up bringing politics into infrastructure.
      - slenk 8y ago
        Who is a good/trustworthy registrar then?
        gyrgtyn 8y ago
        cloudflare?
        slenk 8y ago
        Problem with Cloudflare is that their CEO has taken down a domain for political reasons. While I agree with him taking the domain down, but what about the next CEO?
        jjeaff 8y ago
        That's just false information. They didn't take any domain down. They stopped offering their CDN/proxying service to a customer. That customer is/was free to host their own content using their own or a different service. No company should be required to offer services to anyone and everyone unless they are the only option on the market. And cloudflare is very far from the only CDN on the market.
        Ayesh 8y ago
        Unless I'm thinking of something else, it's not a domain registered through CloudFlare. The taken down site was using CloudFlare's reverse proxy service. IIRC, Matthew wrote about the incident in length. I personally don't use CF for various reasons, but this site take down is not one of them.
        CydeWeys 8y ago
        The full context here is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer#Site_hosting_issues_after_the_2017_Unite_the_Right_rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer#Site_hosting...
        propogandist 8y ago
        https://namesilo.com https://namesilo.com - reliable, cheap & they offer free whois privacy. All they do is sell domains.
      - vira28 8y ago
        care to explain this? Thanks
- toast0 8y ago
  I wouldn't lease the domain through Google domains. Use a different registrar --- if possible, one that you'll be able to trust. That registrar will work with the registry of the TLD, which would be google in this case, and has a much better chance of actually resolving issues than if you were a direct customer of Google Domains.
  - panarky 8y ago
    Now you have two entities who can fuck it up for you instead of just one.
    - benologist 8y ago
      While this is true there are very few reasons why a domain registrar will give you a lifetime ban let alone automatically do it for some perceived TOS crime, let alone refuse to tell you what your alleged misdeed was, let alone automatically reject evidence you submit to the contrary and keep your domains. Imagine the liability!? Meanwhile someone got their Adsense account banned and in those cases Google refunds the allegedly fraudulent revenue to the advertisers and do not pay you the non-fraudulent revenue. The person who got banned went to court over it because it looked like Google schedules these things to maximize how much they could keep, Google fought for four years to conceal where the non-fraudulent revenue went and then settled for $11 million to keep that shrouded in mystery. https://www.searchenginejournal.com/adsense-lawsuit/248135/ https://www.searchenginejournal.com/adsense-lawsuit/248135/ Note the nobody who will say what happens to your domains when your account is banned despite relevant Google personnel participating in this page, but they have time to detail how we're covered by ICANN if Google with $106+ billion in savings goes bankrupt in thousands of years... They designed this awful system exactly the way they wanted it to work and they choose to keep it this way, everyone else should probably not use them for domains or web hosting in case yourself or someone associated with your account is irreversibly judged to have committed a TOS transgression somewhere within their empire.
  - slenk 8y ago
    What registrar would you suggest? I have some on Google but I think I want to transfer now. I also have some on Namecheap, are those safe?
- nikanj 8y ago
  And would I have any way to actually reach a human at Google, aside from media heat from a Reddit/HN/etc front page story?
  - sundvor 8y ago
    Probably none, going by the track record.
    - deadmutex 8y ago
      It really depends on the product. E.g. if you buy Google Wifi, you can call them or chat with customer support, etc. If you need help with constructing a web search query, not so much. So, please do not over generalize or compare apples to oranges.
      - mort96 8y ago
        You can't say for sure that any new Google product is guaranteed to have horrible customer support, but you probably should assume that any new Google product has horrible customer support until you see proof of the contrary.
      - nikanj 8y ago
        As a customer, I can't be expected to have a mental model of which Google services come with actual support, and which ones come with Google-it-yourself support. Comparing Google products to Google products should not be comparing apples to oranges. If Google is frustrated with customers assuming they don't support their products, maybe they should support all of their products, not just a select few.
        vntok 8y ago
        Ask yourself "Do I pay for this Google product?" If the answer is yes, then the product comes with actual support.
        8y ago
bduerst 8y ago
That's a redundant question, because just about every registry can dictate what their TLDs can be used for. It's part of the design laid down by ICANN. - For Verisign with .com, they don't care if you're really a company or not. - With Minds & Machines and .law, they only want qualified lawyers, courts, legal schools, etc. using the TLD. Keep in mind that the registry and registrar are different things.
- prepend 8y ago
  I think the difference is that Google boots folks off YouTube for political purposes while VeriSign does not kick people away from their .com.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Godaddy banned Gab for political reasons as well. While you can split hairs and say that's just a registrar, you can also split hairs and say that youtube is just a hosted content platform. If you're thinking of running another infowars then I would advise avoiding registering domains with any major tech platform in general.
- heavyset_go 8y ago
  Google has a track record of being capricious with bans, whereas other companies do not.
- ldiracdelta 8y ago
  @bduerst, Forgive my ignorance, but just to distill it down to brass tacks: In this case, Google is the registry and thus the supreme court of who can and cannot be on this domain and there is no recourse if they yank your claim on the domain? Is it more nuanced than that?
  - bduerst 8y ago
    I mean, the entire domain name infrastructure is set up so that someone along the path can revoke registrations, all the way up to ICANN itself. IME you're much more likely to be banned by the registrar than the registry itself. Registries want people to use their TLDs, so they're not going to reject post-registration unless you've changed how you're using the TLD and it's violating the rules they originally laid down. Registrars are much more consumer facing and will act accordingly - i.e. GoDaddy banning Gab.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
craftyguy 8y ago
And just like that, the 'Tech Lead of Google Registry' has fallen silent.

OkGoDoIt 8y ago

Along those lines, if Google decides I’m a bot or nefarious developer as seems to mistakenly happen on occasion judging from recent hacker news posts, will I then lose my domain name? Or at least access to it? At this point tying any major asset solely to a Google account feels risky.

jjeaff 8y ago
But don't worry, if a mistake happens, I'm sure you can just call Google's customer service and get it straightened out. Ha!
- chipperyman573 8y ago
  Paid google products, like google domains, have a 24-hour helpline https://domains.google.com/contactus https://domains.google.com/contactus I've heard that if you call during the day you get someone who's actually competent, not just some T1 support person.
  - peterhadlaw 8y ago
    Doesn't matter the level of support, the CEO of Cloudflare was involved and still ended up bringing politics into infrastructure.
    - slenk 8y ago
      Who is a good/trustworthy registrar then?
      - gyrgtyn 8y ago
        cloudflare?
        slenk 8y ago
        Problem with Cloudflare is that their CEO has taken down a domain for political reasons. While I agree with him taking the domain down, but what about the next CEO?
        jjeaff 8y ago
        That's just false information. They didn't take any domain down. They stopped offering their CDN/proxying service to a customer. That customer is/was free to host their own content using their own or a different service. No company should be required to offer services to anyone and everyone unless they are the only option on the market. And cloudflare is very far from the only CDN on the market.
        Ayesh 8y ago
        Unless I'm thinking of something else, it's not a domain registered through CloudFlare. The taken down site was using CloudFlare's reverse proxy service. IIRC, Matthew wrote about the incident in length. I personally don't use CF for various reasons, but this site take down is not one of them.
        CydeWeys 8y ago
        The full context here is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer#Site_hosting_issues_after_the_2017_Unite_the_Right_rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer#Site_hosting...
      - propogandist 8y ago
        https://namesilo.com https://namesilo.com - reliable, cheap & they offer free whois privacy. All they do is sell domains.
    - vira28 8y ago
      care to explain this? Thanks
toast0 8y ago
I wouldn't lease the domain through Google domains. Use a different registrar --- if possible, one that you'll be able to trust. That registrar will work with the registry of the TLD, which would be google in this case, and has a much better chance of actually resolving issues than if you were a direct customer of Google Domains.
- panarky 8y ago
  Now you have two entities who can fuck it up for you instead of just one.
  - benologist 8y ago
    While this is true there are very few reasons why a domain registrar will give you a lifetime ban let alone automatically do it for some perceived TOS crime, let alone refuse to tell you what your alleged misdeed was, let alone automatically reject evidence you submit to the contrary and keep your domains. Imagine the liability!? Meanwhile someone got their Adsense account banned and in those cases Google refunds the allegedly fraudulent revenue to the advertisers and do not pay you the non-fraudulent revenue. The person who got banned went to court over it because it looked like Google schedules these things to maximize how much they could keep, Google fought for four years to conceal where the non-fraudulent revenue went and then settled for $11 million to keep that shrouded in mystery. https://www.searchenginejournal.com/adsense-lawsuit/248135/ https://www.searchenginejournal.com/adsense-lawsuit/248135/ Note the nobody who will say what happens to your domains when your account is banned despite relevant Google personnel participating in this page, but they have time to detail how we're covered by ICANN if Google with $106+ billion in savings goes bankrupt in thousands of years... They designed this awful system exactly the way they wanted it to work and they choose to keep it this way, everyone else should probably not use them for domains or web hosting in case yourself or someone associated with your account is irreversibly judged to have committed a TOS transgression somewhere within their empire.
- slenk 8y ago
  What registrar would you suggest? I have some on Google but I think I want to transfer now. I also have some on Namecheap, are those safe?
nikanj 8y ago
And would I have any way to actually reach a human at Google, aside from media heat from a Reddit/HN/etc front page story?
- sundvor 8y ago
  Probably none, going by the track record.
  - deadmutex 8y ago
    It really depends on the product. E.g. if you buy Google Wifi, you can call them or chat with customer support, etc. If you need help with constructing a web search query, not so much. So, please do not over generalize or compare apples to oranges.
    - mort96 8y ago
      You can't say for sure that any new Google product is guaranteed to have horrible customer support, but you probably should assume that any new Google product has horrible customer support until you see proof of the contrary.
    - nikanj 8y ago
      As a customer, I can't be expected to have a mental model of which Google services come with actual support, and which ones come with Google-it-yourself support. Comparing Google products to Google products should not be comparing apples to oranges. If Google is frustrated with customers assuming they don't support their products, maybe they should support all of their products, not just a select few.
      - vntok 8y ago
        Ask yourself "Do I pay for this Google product?" If the answer is yes, then the product comes with actual support.
        8y ago

bduerst 8y ago

That's a redundant question, because just about every registry can dictate what their TLDs can be used for. It's part of the design laid down by ICANN. - For Verisign with .com, they don't care if you're really a company or not. - With Minds & Machines and .law, they only want qualified lawyers, courts, legal schools, etc. using the TLD. Keep in mind that the registry and registrar are different things.

prepend 8y ago
I think the difference is that Google boots folks off YouTube for political purposes while VeriSign does not kick people away from their .com.
- bduerst 8y ago
  Godaddy banned Gab for political reasons as well. While you can split hairs and say that's just a registrar, you can also split hairs and say that youtube is just a hosted content platform. If you're thinking of running another infowars then I would advise avoiding registering domains with any major tech platform in general.
heavyset_go 8y ago
Google has a track record of being capricious with bans, whereas other companies do not.
ldiracdelta 8y ago
@bduerst, Forgive my ignorance, but just to distill it down to brass tacks: In this case, Google is the registry and thus the supreme court of who can and cannot be on this domain and there is no recourse if they yank your claim on the domain? Is it more nuanced than that?
- bduerst 8y ago
  I mean, the entire domain name infrastructure is set up so that someone along the path can revoke registrations, all the way up to ICANN itself. IME you're much more likely to be banned by the registrar than the registry itself. Registries want people to use their TLDs, so they're not going to reject post-registration unless you've changed how you're using the TLD and it's violating the rules they originally laid down. Registrars are much more consumer facing and will act accordingly - i.e. GoDaddy banning Gab.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

craftyguy 8y ago

And just like that, the 'Tech Lead of Google Registry' has fallen silent.