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The thing that makes me increasingly concerned is the possibility of an entity using this data-surveillance NOT so they can sell us more crap, but for ulterior

The thing that makes me increasingly concerned is the possibility of an entity using this data-surveillance NOT so they can sell us more crap, but for ulterior malicious purposes. We already got a taste of what this can mean with cambridge analytica. But what if some hate group (or other extremist org) with deep pockets decided to buy up and use such data in more sinister ways, targeting individuals or organizations at large scale, developing "Stasi style" dossiers to use as leverage for future actions? The information would not need to be "perfect" but it could get increasingly more accurate over time depending on how much attention they focus on their targets.

bilbo0s 8y ago
Just imagine if it's just some tech guy, maybe unemployed or something, tired of being broke, who just needs to pay rent or something? That's what's concerning, people don't even need to have a cause, they can just be desperate. The government will be tracking the people who have a cause. You can go to the government to get help against those people because those people have something to lose. What about the people with nothing to lose? More and more people are out of work or underemployed, but I'm pretty sure the number of people who need to pay their bills remains constant. All of a sudden all this data starts to make well off people look more like meal tickets. Imagine how easy it would be to get money out of that rich looking lawyer guy who's having an affair? Or maybe the well off looking doctor lady who voiced some views about blacks that her hospital, and the local naacp, might find interesting? This economy, combined with massive data retention and security breaches, will make for some real perverse incentives in the future. We could conceivably get to the point where all you'd need to be is some guy with internet access who needs to pay rent by the end of the month.
- wholinator2 8y ago
  Right, and what if you can also fabricate the evidence used for the blackmail. Image generation techniques are improving year over year and we've gotten to the point where generating a video of a person saying anything you want in their voice with their face is coming closer to the realm of home computing power. Anyone with the time could focus on hacking social media accounts or even just faking a sceenshot. The media doesn't need much inclination or evidence to start the slander.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    Yeah, what I'm getting at more is the stuff that doesn't make it to the level of the media, but some guy could still use to make money. The media won't care about some random lawyer having an affair, but the lawyer's wife would. The media won't care about some random doctor who talked about how she could off the sub-human blacks if she wanted, but it'll be about 5 seconds before lawyers and, more importantly, medical review boards, start looking into statistics at her hospital. You have to be prominent before the media cares, but there are plenty of people with money who are NOT prominent, and I suspect they'd make very tempting targets. In fact, I'd bet the people at that level would actually be more likely to pay up.
  - xtiansimon 8y ago
    > wholinator2: Right, and what if you can also fabricate the evidence used for the blackmail. I have a suspicion this threat, and the OP are Quantitatively different at the present time. If unscrupulous companies correlate an effective network with PII, they could do a lot of mischief on a massive scale and many people would be largely unaware. Sell your data, use your data as training data for some other bad action etc. Making fakes requires an audience of, possibly discerning, humans to find the fakes convincing and then take some action.
dontbenebby 8y ago
>The thing that makes me increasingly concerned is the possibility of an entity using this data-surveillance NOT so they can sell us more crap, but for ulterior malicious purposes. Like causing a measles outbreak? https://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/2019/02/measles-outbreak-anti-vaccination-misinformation-fueled-by-russian-propagandists-study-finds.html https://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/2019/02/measles-outb...
rixrax 8y ago
If you haven’t seen Lives of Others[0], you probably should. Talks pretty directly to what parent is proposing. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others

bilbo0s 8y ago

Just imagine if it's just some tech guy, maybe unemployed or something, tired of being broke, who just needs to pay rent or something? That's what's concerning, people don't even need to have a cause, they can just be desperate. The government will be tracking the people who have a cause. You can go to the government to get help against those people because those people have something to lose. What about the people with nothing to lose? More and more people are out of work or underemployed, but I'm pretty sure the number of people who need to pay their bills remains constant. All of a sudden all this data starts to make well off people look more like meal tickets. Imagine how easy it would be to get money out of that rich looking lawyer guy who's having an affair? Or maybe the well off looking doctor lady who voiced some views about blacks that her hospital, and the local naacp, might find interesting? This economy, combined with massive data retention and security breaches, will make for some real perverse incentives in the future. We could conceivably get to the point where all you'd need to be is some guy with internet access who needs to pay rent by the end of the month.

wholinator2 8y ago
Right, and what if you can also fabricate the evidence used for the blackmail. Image generation techniques are improving year over year and we've gotten to the point where generating a video of a person saying anything you want in their voice with their face is coming closer to the realm of home computing power. Anyone with the time could focus on hacking social media accounts or even just faking a sceenshot. The media doesn't need much inclination or evidence to start the slander.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  Yeah, what I'm getting at more is the stuff that doesn't make it to the level of the media, but some guy could still use to make money. The media won't care about some random lawyer having an affair, but the lawyer's wife would. The media won't care about some random doctor who talked about how she could off the sub-human blacks if she wanted, but it'll be about 5 seconds before lawyers and, more importantly, medical review boards, start looking into statistics at her hospital. You have to be prominent before the media cares, but there are plenty of people with money who are NOT prominent, and I suspect they'd make very tempting targets. In fact, I'd bet the people at that level would actually be more likely to pay up.
- xtiansimon 8y ago
  > wholinator2: Right, and what if you can also fabricate the evidence used for the blackmail. I have a suspicion this threat, and the OP are Quantitatively different at the present time. If unscrupulous companies correlate an effective network with PII, they could do a lot of mischief on a massive scale and many people would be largely unaware. Sell your data, use your data as training data for some other bad action etc. Making fakes requires an audience of, possibly discerning, humans to find the fakes convincing and then take some action.

dontbenebby 8y ago

>The thing that makes me increasingly concerned is the possibility of an entity using this data-surveillance NOT so they can sell us more crap, but for ulterior malicious purposes. Like causing a measles outbreak? https://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/2019/02/measles-outbreak-anti-vaccination-misinformation-fueled-by-russian-propagandists-study-finds.html https://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/2019/02/measles-outb...

rixrax 8y ago

If you haven’t seen Lives of Others[0], you probably should. Talks pretty directly to what parent is proposing. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others