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> Unfortunately Fascist governments will happen every now and then, saying that they shouldn't is denying the fact that they will, several countries are on the

by imgabe 8y ago

> Unfortunately Fascist governments will happen every now and then, saying that they shouldn't is denying the fact that they will, several countries are on the path to Fascism today, whether they will get there or not is anybody's guess. But if they do, I guarantee you that all this tech will make the next pogrom a lot more effective than the previous one. And, unfortunately, information such as what religion you are can and will be recorded. Even if it's just someone standing outside a place of worship and watching who goes in and out or the records of the church/synagogue/mosque etc itself. Saying that it shouldn't is just diverting resources into a futile attempt to stamp out information that cannot be contained. Fascist governments don't just "happen", they are not a force of nature like a hurricane or an earthquake. They are a result of conscious decisions by human beings, which are within our power to control.

jacquesm 8y ago
> Saying that it shouldn't is just diverting resources into a futile attempt to stamp out information that cannot be contained. You can't stamp out information and you can't contain it. But you can create awareness of the effect of information in the aggregate and that is what this article is doing. You are taking the defeatist position that there is nothing we can do about this so we should all just fall in line and give up our data. I disagree. > Fascist governments don't just "happen", they are not a force of nature like a hurricane or an earthquake. They are a result of conscious decisions by human beings, which are within our power to control. No, they are not within 'our' power to control. There were many 'good' Germans in WW II. And yet, their government happened and there wasn't a thing they could do about it.
- imgabe 8y ago
  In the end, something was done about it, was it not? Germany is not currently fascist, so clearly it is within the power of humans to reverse it. Yes, it wasn't easy, but hopefully we have learned something from the last time that we can use to make it easier the next time? If it is not within our power to control...then how was it controlled? Did the Nazis just lose interest and give up?
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    A couple of million people and their descendants would like a word with you. It's all fun and word games until its your relatives that end up in a gas chamber somewhere. So yes, sure, 'something' was done about it. But that something did not magically resurrect the people that didn't make it. And as for having learned something from the last time, it does not look like we have learned all that much. > If it is not within our power to control...then how was it controlled? Did the Nazis just lose interest and give up? I take it these are rhetorical questions that need no answer.
  - fwsgonzo 8y ago
    They were defeated, trialled and hanged in Nuremberg, by judges from all over. One of the most important things we learned was that following orders is not an excuse.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      Or given cozy jobs in the US rocket program.
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
    > Yes, it wasn't easy, but hopefully we have learned something from the last time that we can use to make it easier the next time? You didn't notice the irony that you are the one who insists on not learning from it, did you? > If it is not within our power to control...then how was it controlled? Did the Nazis just lose interest and give up? You are seriously telling us that you cannot distinguish 6 million jews killed from no jews killed? Or is "controlled" a word that you use to describe anything that at least one person survived in the end?
    - imgabe 8y ago
      What lesson do you think should be learned? That when freedom is threatened,we should cower, run away and hide? Because that sure isn't what stopped fascism the last time. Bullies need to be fought, not capitulated to
- fwsgonzo 8y ago
  Indeed. There is the concept of the Good Nazi. Just a regular woman/man living in germany, who goes on about his life, doing nothing to stop the events leading to and including genocide. For people in China today you have to cheer on the party, or you will get docked social credits. Contrast that to the strongman leading the US now, who is a demented serial failure. Things would be much muddier if he had the ability to undertake the slow and steady march towards persuasive authoritarianism, like the current chinese leadership.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    The most frequently heard words in the aftermath of WW II in .de were 'Wir haben es nich gewusst.'. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgen%C3%B6ssische_Kenntnis_vom_Holocaust https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgen%C3%B6ssische_Kenntnis_...

by imgabe 8y ago

jacquesm 8y ago

> Saying that it shouldn't is just diverting resources into a futile attempt to stamp out information that cannot be contained. You can't stamp out information and you can't contain it. But you can create awareness of the effect of information in the aggregate and that is what this article is doing. You are taking the defeatist position that there is nothing we can do about this so we should all just fall in line and give up our data. I disagree. > Fascist governments don't just "happen", they are not a force of nature like a hurricane or an earthquake. They are a result of conscious decisions by human beings, which are within our power to control. No, they are not within 'our' power to control. There were many 'good' Germans in WW II. And yet, their government happened and there wasn't a thing they could do about it.

imgabe 8y ago
In the end, something was done about it, was it not? Germany is not currently fascist, so clearly it is within the power of humans to reverse it. Yes, it wasn't easy, but hopefully we have learned something from the last time that we can use to make it easier the next time? If it is not within our power to control...then how was it controlled? Did the Nazis just lose interest and give up?
- jacquesm 8y ago
  A couple of million people and their descendants would like a word with you. It's all fun and word games until its your relatives that end up in a gas chamber somewhere. So yes, sure, 'something' was done about it. But that something did not magically resurrect the people that didn't make it. And as for having learned something from the last time, it does not look like we have learned all that much. > If it is not within our power to control...then how was it controlled? Did the Nazis just lose interest and give up? I take it these are rhetorical questions that need no answer.
- fwsgonzo 8y ago
  They were defeated, trialled and hanged in Nuremberg, by judges from all over. One of the most important things we learned was that following orders is not an excuse.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    Or given cozy jobs in the US rocket program.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
  > Yes, it wasn't easy, but hopefully we have learned something from the last time that we can use to make it easier the next time? You didn't notice the irony that you are the one who insists on not learning from it, did you? > If it is not within our power to control...then how was it controlled? Did the Nazis just lose interest and give up? You are seriously telling us that you cannot distinguish 6 million jews killed from no jews killed? Or is "controlled" a word that you use to describe anything that at least one person survived in the end?
  - imgabe 8y ago
    What lesson do you think should be learned? That when freedom is threatened,we should cower, run away and hide? Because that sure isn't what stopped fascism the last time. Bullies need to be fought, not capitulated to
fwsgonzo 8y ago
Indeed. There is the concept of the Good Nazi. Just a regular woman/man living in germany, who goes on about his life, doing nothing to stop the events leading to and including genocide. For people in China today you have to cheer on the party, or you will get docked social credits. Contrast that to the strongman leading the US now, who is a demented serial failure. Things would be much muddier if he had the ability to undertake the slow and steady march towards persuasive authoritarianism, like the current chinese leadership.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  The most frequently heard words in the aftermath of WW II in .de were 'Wir haben es nich gewusst.'. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgen%C3%B6ssische_Kenntnis_vom_Holocaust https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgen%C3%B6ssische_Kenntnis_...