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Now pretend all this is public and someone stalks you. Maybe it is your abusive ex that occasionally sends you creepy messages and harasses anyone you date. It

Now pretend all this is public and someone stalks you. Maybe it is your abusive ex that occasionally sends you creepy messages and harasses anyone you date. It isn't like we have many protections in place to keep the bad folks from the good. And I'll add that phone books didn't have everyone in town - only the person who paid for the line. For many, you had to look up their family member's or roomate's name to get their phone number and address. Your name and picture might be, but most people's are not. You might not want folks in your conservative town to know which brand of religion you follow. You might not want those folks in that conservative town to know you go to a gay bar most Saturday nights either.

imgabe 8y ago
If someone is stalking and harassing you, we need the police to arrest them. Hiding your location data from Google isn't going to help that. The problem there is that an individual is breaking the law. I doubt very much they are finding your location because it's stored in an advertising database somewhere. If you can't openly practice your religion or sexuality in a town, that is a failing of the people of the town. Either stand up for yourself or move to a town with better people. Again, this is not a problem that can be solved by hiding, and living your life having to tiptoe around core parts of your identity so that idiots won't be rude? That is a miserable way to live.
- mrweasel 8y ago
  > Either stand up for yourself or move to a town with better people That is extremely optimistic. You're right that it's a "people" problem, but not one that's easily solved in the near future. You can't just say: This would be a problem if there weren't assholes around. Well some people are assholes, so this is a problem. You should also be able to leave your wallet in the park, without it getting stole, but you can't so you don't. You don't move as a result of it, that would be stupid, the major cities of the world would be empty. Also we shouldn't forget that one of misuses we have seen of these types of information are law enforcement agents tracking (ex-)partners. Location data may not be secret necessarily, but it can be private.
  - imgabe 8y ago
    True, some people are assholes. And if we just hide from them and never confront them, they will continue being assholes because in their experience, being an asshole has worked out well for them, so why would they stop?
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
      So, where are you right now confronting assholes that are bullying other people? It is really cheap to say that other people should just confront people who are assholes towards in order to justify that it's not your problem to deal with.
      - imgabe 8y ago
        It is really cheap to demand that everyone else fight your battles for you. I mean, sure, I'd love to play kindergarten teacher and run around making sure everyone is nice to each other, but I've got my own life here to live, you know? Actually, I wouldn't love to do that, it sounds exhausting, and if you won't do it on your own behalf, why should I? For my part, I treat everyone as fairly as I know how and I expect others to do the same.
        zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
        > It is really cheap to demand that everyone else fight your battles for you. Noone is demanding that. You are demanding that people fight the battles even though they don't want to. So, if your demand is that the battle should be fought, it is up to you to fight it, or to keep your demands out of other people's lives. > but I've got my own life here to live, you know? You might be surprised, but other people have their own life to live as well. So stop telling them that they should be fighting a battle they don't want to fight, just because you are ideologically opposed to how they deal with the problem that they are facing. > Actually, I wouldn't love to do that, it sounds exhausting So, what is your justification for demanding that other people do this exhausting work? > and if you won't do it on your own behalf, why should I? Noone says that you should. But if you don't, then don't tell them how they have to deal with their problem.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
  > Again, this is not a problem that can be solved by hiding, and living your life having to tiptoe around core parts of your identity so that idiots won't be rude? That is a miserable way to live. And yet, it has been and is being used successfully by people. Sure is it miserable, but it is a lot less miserable than being killed or out of a job without the money to move and without a social support network. As long as you are not the one who is funding every oppressed person's move to a better place, your argument is simply authoritarian bullshit, where you are trying to dictate how other people solve their problems for purely ideological reasons and without consideration of the costs that has to them.
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  If someone is stalking and harassing you, we need the police to arrest them. You do realize that this isn't really happening? I mean, I had someone physically following my car. I ran red lights. I stopped at the jail instead of going home - and they weren't going to even do a police report until they realized they knew who it was. Schools cover up rapes. They often do little to nothing with protection orders. I have, however, wound up in the "wrong neighborhood", told it was a crack neighborhood, and that "we've found out that white people do it too". If you want folks to be arrested, perhaps have a functional police force. Or that folks don't always have the means to "move someplace better". Or, you know, that some of the people are 15 years old and can't actually have control over this stuff. Or worse, you think it is freaking normal. Until society comes down hard on such things or provides actual relief to folks in bad situations, perhaps you shouldn't look down on wide swaths of society that hide from a stalker, hide their religion, or hide sexuality.

imgabe 8y ago

If someone is stalking and harassing you, we need the police to arrest them. Hiding your location data from Google isn't going to help that. The problem there is that an individual is breaking the law. I doubt very much they are finding your location because it's stored in an advertising database somewhere. If you can't openly practice your religion or sexuality in a town, that is a failing of the people of the town. Either stand up for yourself or move to a town with better people. Again, this is not a problem that can be solved by hiding, and living your life having to tiptoe around core parts of your identity so that idiots won't be rude? That is a miserable way to live.

mrweasel 8y ago
> Either stand up for yourself or move to a town with better people That is extremely optimistic. You're right that it's a "people" problem, but not one that's easily solved in the near future. You can't just say: This would be a problem if there weren't assholes around. Well some people are assholes, so this is a problem. You should also be able to leave your wallet in the park, without it getting stole, but you can't so you don't. You don't move as a result of it, that would be stupid, the major cities of the world would be empty. Also we shouldn't forget that one of misuses we have seen of these types of information are law enforcement agents tracking (ex-)partners. Location data may not be secret necessarily, but it can be private.
- imgabe 8y ago
  True, some people are assholes. And if we just hide from them and never confront them, they will continue being assholes because in their experience, being an asshole has worked out well for them, so why would they stop?
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
    So, where are you right now confronting assholes that are bullying other people? It is really cheap to say that other people should just confront people who are assholes towards in order to justify that it's not your problem to deal with.
    - imgabe 8y ago
      It is really cheap to demand that everyone else fight your battles for you. I mean, sure, I'd love to play kindergarten teacher and run around making sure everyone is nice to each other, but I've got my own life here to live, you know? Actually, I wouldn't love to do that, it sounds exhausting, and if you won't do it on your own behalf, why should I? For my part, I treat everyone as fairly as I know how and I expect others to do the same.
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
        > It is really cheap to demand that everyone else fight your battles for you. Noone is demanding that. You are demanding that people fight the battles even though they don't want to. So, if your demand is that the battle should be fought, it is up to you to fight it, or to keep your demands out of other people's lives. > but I've got my own life here to live, you know? You might be surprised, but other people have their own life to live as well. So stop telling them that they should be fighting a battle they don't want to fight, just because you are ideologically opposed to how they deal with the problem that they are facing. > Actually, I wouldn't love to do that, it sounds exhausting So, what is your justification for demanding that other people do this exhausting work? > and if you won't do it on your own behalf, why should I? Noone says that you should. But if you don't, then don't tell them how they have to deal with their problem.
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
> Again, this is not a problem that can be solved by hiding, and living your life having to tiptoe around core parts of your identity so that idiots won't be rude? That is a miserable way to live. And yet, it has been and is being used successfully by people. Sure is it miserable, but it is a lot less miserable than being killed or out of a job without the money to move and without a social support network. As long as you are not the one who is funding every oppressed person's move to a better place, your argument is simply authoritarian bullshit, where you are trying to dictate how other people solve their problems for purely ideological reasons and without consideration of the costs that has to them.
Broken_Hippo 8y ago
If someone is stalking and harassing you, we need the police to arrest them. You do realize that this isn't really happening? I mean, I had someone physically following my car. I ran red lights. I stopped at the jail instead of going home - and they weren't going to even do a police report until they realized they knew who it was. Schools cover up rapes. They often do little to nothing with protection orders. I have, however, wound up in the "wrong neighborhood", told it was a crack neighborhood, and that "we've found out that white people do it too". If you want folks to be arrested, perhaps have a functional police force. Or that folks don't always have the means to "move someplace better". Or, you know, that some of the people are 15 years old and can't actually have control over this stuff. Or worse, you think it is freaking normal. Until society comes down hard on such things or provides actual relief to folks in bad situations, perhaps you shouldn't look down on wide swaths of society that hide from a stalker, hide their religion, or hide sexuality.