7 ms·

The biggest problem with Microsoft is them not sticking to their strength. I was an avid fanboy till Windows 7. This was an OS that could cater to power users-

by fxfan 8y ago

The biggest problem with Microsoft is them not sticking to their strength. I was an avid fanboy till Windows 7. This was an OS that could cater to power users- keyboard shortcuts, powershell (shitty console but anyway). They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. Linux is mature now, onedrive has replacements and I can use the web-interface of onenote or the full interface with dual-booting. So I don't need Windows as a developer anymore. I know Satya Nadella directly or indirectly monitors this board and I know this wasn't his doing but remember when Mr ballmer (the same guy who let this stupidity happen) chanted developers, it was for a reason- if you don't cater to power users and developers your platform will not see apps and then you lose regular users too. I say this personally too- I had a Windows specific app Idea that I had to drop because Windows was unusable for me. I know MS gets a lot of 'hate' and irresponsible advice so they probably just ignore most so called suggestions but I am being honest, I really want to use Windows, I genuinely think that Macs are overrated and Linux has an app problem- but I cannot. I can offer one terse advice- don't force stuff on people. Give them options. That was Windows's biggest strenght

mehrdadn 8y ago
> They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. I get that for ordinary users it's a dealbreaker, but I never understood this complaint about the Windows 8 touch UI from power users or developers. It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a classic UI that lets you forget the new Windows 8 UI ever existed. Otherwise the OS itself was quite better than Windows 7. How that UI change makes it such a dealbreaker just makes no sense to me. If you'd complained about your Linux kernel they'd have just said boo-hoo and told you to go compile your kernel to your liking... but now when it's Windows's turn suddenly the start screen is a showstopper for the whole OS you were such a fan of?
- dmitriid 8y ago
  > It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a classic UI 1. Where would a user even learn about a "Classic Shell"? 2. Why would a power user install a third-party thing that radically changes the way the system looks? And one whose development stopped in 2017? 3. And, in general, why? It's the OS' job to provide interfaces for power users.
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    1. Google old start menu. It's literally the top result. 2/3. Sigh. I didn't realize setting up Classic Shell was so much harder than setting up a Linux box for a power user, I'm sorry. Power users definitely should be the ones to expect their OSes to be perfect for them out of the box, and it's definitely nuts to expect they'd be the ones to customize their systems.
    - rleigh 8y ago
      The problem with this is primarily that it's not the default. It's a remedial action to make a poorly functional system usable at a basic level. People in the know are aware of Classic Shell. Most people aren't. Most people won't take any remedial actions or even find out that there are options; they'll live with it, hating it, and despising Windows even more. The number of people who go to the effort of installing Classic Shell is a tiny minority of the total userbase.
    - rincebrain 8y ago
      Classic Shell is now unmaintained because MS kept iterating and breaking the APIs being used for it.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        The maintained version is Open Shell: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
oblio 8y ago
Win 10 is pretty ok for keyboard users.
alkonaut 8y ago
Even 8.1 was a retreat from the Win8 strategy, and in Win10 I haven’t seen a touch thing at all (I haven’t accidentally started the on screen keyboard that popped up every now and then in 8). Apart from some annoyances - some people get ads on the start menu for example, and the telemetry is universally hated - new releases of 10 are really just a better 7. The improvements such as better high dpi, better shell, wsl etc make the upgrade from 7 to 10 a no brainer. My biggest issue with win10 is the services that are on by default and take 48h to settle down (upgrading every store app I never use, doing a full AV scan...). It makes it painful to use in a VM as the VM is unusable when you boot it clean or after a long time shut down. Would it be too much to ask to just “don’t do anything in the background that isn’t obvious and cancellable if it uses any disk, cpu or network resources”?
- itd00d 8y ago
  All the extra padding, whitespace and giant box like elements of design (compare new calc app to old calc app) show that touch is still being pushed. Same with the toggle on/off options for 99% of newer UI windows. Those are aimed purely at one press touch users.
webmobdev 8y ago
> I can offer one terse advice- don't force stuff on people. Give them options. That was Windows's biggest strenght 100% this! I lost all respect for Microsoft when it tried to be Apple and started becoming more controlling and limiting user options in windows os - no, you will have to force update the OS, no, we will upload all your data to our servers and spy on you, no, the OS needs a touch interface even if it is on a desktop pc, and so on ... Apple atleast offers some benefits with its "controlling" philosophy, but Microsoft just focused on the control aspect. And thus forced me (and I am sure many others) to Linux and MacOs.
DCKing 8y ago
I find Windows 8 complaints so full of hyperbole. I used Windows 8 daily on my work laptop for years, and these are the items I needed to adjust to. Launching programs: Windows key + type type <enter> to Windows + S + type type <enter> (I still use that on W10) Shutting down the PC: click on start to right-click on start The Windows 8 UI was a failure and it sucks you need to adjust, but come on. I'd prefer Linux too, but changing an entire OS over easily avoidable UI gripes sounds weird to me.
- simonh 8y ago
  It depends how low the barrier is to switching. For me it's very low. I use Windows at work, OSX at home and Linux frequently at both so the only question is which do I want to use on my home machine? Switching for me is just a question of a few hours work re-installing stuff. Plus as a techie there are benefits just to switching, due to becoming more intimately familiar with a different OS. For me that's a plus all by itself. As for Windows 8, I did use it daily as my primary office OS for several years and I deeply hated it. These stupid side bars kept popping up all the time, system settings were hard to find, constantly switching back and forth between two completely different UIs grated against my nerves every single time. 10 has the same problems, but straightened out just enough to just be irritating rather than actively painful. It's not like MacOS has no pain points. I'd love to have easier access to more games, but Porting Kit works just well enough to bridge that gap for me.
- fxfan 8y ago
  No hyperbole- Win+s was the ultimate snipping tool powered by OneNote. Shutting down is shutdown /t0 So you see- I know my way around but I still find windows shitty.
Operyl 8y ago
Huge rant incoming: My biggest issue is still not knowing how the (ugh..) fuck to remove Candy Crush Saga from my god damned “downloaded” apps list. On fucking Professional I should not have to deal with that crap. All the instructions on the internet I have found seem to no longer work, and it’s the tiny things that add up that really annoy me. It even shows up in classic shell ...
- fxfan 8y ago
  Here- let me do some powershell magic ;) Get-appxpackage \microsoft\ | remove-appxpackage #asterisk around Microsoft Now replace Microsoft with windows. One of these will also remove the store - so careful/congrats
- brianpgordon 8y ago
  This project is well-maintained (and extensively forked). It helps you turn all of that crap off. https://github.com/Disassembler0/Win10-Initial-Setup-Script https://github.com/Disassembler0/Win10-Initial-Setup-Script I actually bought a Windows 10 Pro for Workstations license because I thought it would let me cleanly install Windows with just a power user set of functionality and none of that XBox / Candy Crush rubbish. Turns out that used to be true, but no longer. Unless you can find a very particular range of old build images on the dark recesses of the Internet you have to do a standard Windows 10 Pro install and then "upgrade" it to Workstations.
  - Operyl 8y ago
    Its absurd. Even on the City Workstations I sometimes use when volunteering are plagued by candy crush saga!
- naikrovek 8y ago
  Right-click...
  - Operyl 8y ago
    You can’t do that with the “advertisement packages”. Thanks for trying though ;).
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
naikrovek 8y ago
> They started running after the touch segment Phones and tablets were (and are) a huge market. Everyone chased that market. > deliberately removed the keyboard interface Never happened (or I don't understand what you're saying.) Pressing the Windows key on your keyboard and typing the name of the program you want to launch works exactly the same in Windows 7, 8, and 10. > I had a Windows specific app Idea that I had to drop because Windows was unusable for me. I'm sorry. You can switch from Windows 7 to Linux, but not from Windows 7 to Windows 8, because the differences between Windows 7 and 8 are too great? Are you being serious?

by fxfan 8y ago

mehrdadn 8y ago

> They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. I get that for ordinary users it's a dealbreaker, but I never understood this complaint about the Windows 8 touch UI from power users or developers. It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a classic UI that lets you forget the new Windows 8 UI ever existed. Otherwise the OS itself was quite better than Windows 7. How that UI change makes it such a dealbreaker just makes no sense to me. If you'd complained about your Linux kernel they'd have just said boo-hoo and told you to go compile your kernel to your liking... but now when it's Windows's turn suddenly the start screen is a showstopper for the whole OS you were such a fan of?

dmitriid 8y ago
> It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a classic UI 1. Where would a user even learn about a "Classic Shell"? 2. Why would a power user install a third-party thing that radically changes the way the system looks? And one whose development stopped in 2017? 3. And, in general, why? It's the OS' job to provide interfaces for power users.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  1. Google old start menu. It's literally the top result. 2/3. Sigh. I didn't realize setting up Classic Shell was so much harder than setting up a Linux box for a power user, I'm sorry. Power users definitely should be the ones to expect their OSes to be perfect for them out of the box, and it's definitely nuts to expect they'd be the ones to customize their systems.
  - rleigh 8y ago
    The problem with this is primarily that it's not the default. It's a remedial action to make a poorly functional system usable at a basic level. People in the know are aware of Classic Shell. Most people aren't. Most people won't take any remedial actions or even find out that there are options; they'll live with it, hating it, and despising Windows even more. The number of people who go to the effort of installing Classic Shell is a tiny minority of the total userbase.
  - rincebrain 8y ago
    Classic Shell is now unmaintained because MS kept iterating and breaking the APIs being used for it.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      The maintained version is Open Shell: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

oblio 8y ago

Win 10 is pretty ok for keyboard users.

alkonaut 8y ago

Even 8.1 was a retreat from the Win8 strategy, and in Win10 I haven’t seen a touch thing at all (I haven’t accidentally started the on screen keyboard that popped up every now and then in 8). Apart from some annoyances - some people get ads on the start menu for example, and the telemetry is universally hated - new releases of 10 are really just a better 7. The improvements such as better high dpi, better shell, wsl etc make the upgrade from 7 to 10 a no brainer. My biggest issue with win10 is the services that are on by default and take 48h to settle down (upgrading every store app I never use, doing a full AV scan...). It makes it painful to use in a VM as the VM is unusable when you boot it clean or after a long time shut down. Would it be too much to ask to just “don’t do anything in the background that isn’t obvious and cancellable if it uses any disk, cpu or network resources”?

itd00d 8y ago
All the extra padding, whitespace and giant box like elements of design (compare new calc app to old calc app) show that touch is still being pushed. Same with the toggle on/off options for 99% of newer UI windows. Those are aimed purely at one press touch users.

webmobdev 8y ago

> I can offer one terse advice- don't force stuff on people. Give them options. That was Windows's biggest strenght 100% this! I lost all respect for Microsoft when it tried to be Apple and started becoming more controlling and limiting user options in windows os - no, you will have to force update the OS, no, we will upload all your data to our servers and spy on you, no, the OS needs a touch interface even if it is on a desktop pc, and so on ... Apple atleast offers some benefits with its "controlling" philosophy, but Microsoft just focused on the control aspect. And thus forced me (and I am sure many others) to Linux and MacOs.

DCKing 8y ago

I find Windows 8 complaints so full of hyperbole. I used Windows 8 daily on my work laptop for years, and these are the items I needed to adjust to. Launching programs: Windows key + type type <enter> to Windows + S + type type <enter> (I still use that on W10) Shutting down the PC: click on start to right-click on start The Windows 8 UI was a failure and it sucks you need to adjust, but come on. I'd prefer Linux too, but changing an entire OS over easily avoidable UI gripes sounds weird to me.

simonh 8y ago
It depends how low the barrier is to switching. For me it's very low. I use Windows at work, OSX at home and Linux frequently at both so the only question is which do I want to use on my home machine? Switching for me is just a question of a few hours work re-installing stuff. Plus as a techie there are benefits just to switching, due to becoming more intimately familiar with a different OS. For me that's a plus all by itself. As for Windows 8, I did use it daily as my primary office OS for several years and I deeply hated it. These stupid side bars kept popping up all the time, system settings were hard to find, constantly switching back and forth between two completely different UIs grated against my nerves every single time. 10 has the same problems, but straightened out just enough to just be irritating rather than actively painful. It's not like MacOS has no pain points. I'd love to have easier access to more games, but Porting Kit works just well enough to bridge that gap for me.
fxfan 8y ago
No hyperbole- Win+s was the ultimate snipping tool powered by OneNote. Shutting down is shutdown /t0 So you see- I know my way around but I still find windows shitty.

Operyl 8y ago

Huge rant incoming: My biggest issue is still not knowing how the (ugh..) fuck to remove Candy Crush Saga from my god damned “downloaded” apps list. On fucking Professional I should not have to deal with that crap. All the instructions on the internet I have found seem to no longer work, and it’s the tiny things that add up that really annoy me. It even shows up in classic shell ...

fxfan 8y ago
Here- let me do some powershell magic ;) Get-appxpackage \microsoft\ | remove-appxpackage #asterisk around Microsoft Now replace Microsoft with windows. One of these will also remove the store - so careful/congrats
brianpgordon 8y ago
This project is well-maintained (and extensively forked). It helps you turn all of that crap off. https://github.com/Disassembler0/Win10-Initial-Setup-Script https://github.com/Disassembler0/Win10-Initial-Setup-Script I actually bought a Windows 10 Pro for Workstations license because I thought it would let me cleanly install Windows with just a power user set of functionality and none of that XBox / Candy Crush rubbish. Turns out that used to be true, but no longer. Unless you can find a very particular range of old build images on the dark recesses of the Internet you have to do a standard Windows 10 Pro install and then "upgrade" it to Workstations.
- Operyl 8y ago
  Its absurd. Even on the City Workstations I sometimes use when volunteering are plagued by candy crush saga!
naikrovek 8y ago
Right-click...
- Operyl 8y ago
  You can’t do that with the “advertisement packages”. Thanks for trying though ;).

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

naikrovek 8y ago

> They started running after the touch segment Phones and tablets were (and are) a huge market. Everyone chased that market. > deliberately removed the keyboard interface Never happened (or I don't understand what you're saying.) Pressing the Windows key on your keyboard and typing the name of the program you want to launch works exactly the same in Windows 7, 8, and 10. > I had a Windows specific app Idea that I had to drop because Windows was unusable for me. I'm sorry. You can switch from Windows 7 to Linux, but not from Windows 7 to Windows 8, because the differences between Windows 7 and 8 are too great? Are you being serious?