4 ms·

I wonder if the fact that serial anything criminals exist at all indicates that the criminal justice system might be broken? I wonder if the deterrence aspect o

by sfifs 8y ago

I wonder if the fact that serial anything criminals exist at all indicates that the criminal justice system might be broken? I wonder if the deterrence aspect of law enforcement is actually working in Western countries.

nordsieck 8y ago
> I wonder if the fact that serial anything criminals exist at all indicates that the criminal justice system might be broken? I'm a serial jay walker. I'm not sure that's evidence of the crumbling of western civilization. I don't think the law should aim to eliminate all crime. In my opinion, there are systemic limits to how efficient law enforcement can me: clamp down too hard on type 2 errors, and type 1 errors rear their ugly heads. Which isn't to say that what we've got is the best that can be.
- daef 8y ago
  I've heard the term jaywalking a few times (with a dispiseful tone) and looked it up now. the concept doesnt even make sense to me. here the 'weaker' have precedence over the 'stronger'. plus there's always the 'vertrauensgrundsatz' (principle of reliance) that states that you have to rely on others to behave correct (except children), but as soon as they give you a sign that this might not be the case it's _your_ duty to compensate. man I'm glad not to live in the land of the free.....
  - jmiserez 8y ago
    Not so fast, it's not just the US. Switzerland has a jaywalking law too, but it's never enforced and the fine is almost nothing (10$).
    - daef 8y ago
      Wow... I had no idea.
  - hesk 8y ago
    Ignoring a red light as a pedestrian carries a 5 € fine in Germany [1]. 10 € if it causes an accident. Jaywalking (crossing the street where you're not supposed to) also carries a 10 € fine. [1] https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/fussgaenger/ https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/fussgaenger/
    - detaro 8y ago
      Note that this says "Kraftstraße", so specially marked, faster streets. "Normal" streets can be crossed everywhere, although if there is a better or explicit crossing spot nearby you have to use it.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      That’s a pretty small fine for some pretty serious consequences…
      - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
        It probably isn't meant to be punitive, just a deterrent. A 5p charge for plastic bags cut the usage massively in the UK.
kzrdude 8y ago
Deterrence is just one way to reduce crime, it doesn't have to be the only factor and like you say, it's just a reduction not a complete fix.
goto11 8y ago
Yes and no. I'm sure more people would park illegally or skip paying bills if there were no punishment. But deterrence is supposed to work at a rational level: The risk of getting caught and the punishment deters you from committing the act. It does not work if you don't act rationally in the first place, e.g. compulsive criminals or other forms of mental illness, drug-affected crimes, crimes of passion/anger etc. For very high stakes you might be willing to take the risk, or your assessment of the risk of getting caught might be off. Or you might just be desperate. I suspect this guy have some mental issues.

by sfifs 8y ago

nordsieck 8y ago

> I wonder if the fact that serial anything criminals exist at all indicates that the criminal justice system might be broken? I'm a serial jay walker. I'm not sure that's evidence of the crumbling of western civilization. I don't think the law should aim to eliminate all crime. In my opinion, there are systemic limits to how efficient law enforcement can me: clamp down too hard on type 2 errors, and type 1 errors rear their ugly heads. Which isn't to say that what we've got is the best that can be.

daef 8y ago
I've heard the term jaywalking a few times (with a dispiseful tone) and looked it up now. the concept doesnt even make sense to me. here the 'weaker' have precedence over the 'stronger'. plus there's always the 'vertrauensgrundsatz' (principle of reliance) that states that you have to rely on others to behave correct (except children), but as soon as they give you a sign that this might not be the case it's _your_ duty to compensate. man I'm glad not to live in the land of the free.....
- jmiserez 8y ago
  Not so fast, it's not just the US. Switzerland has a jaywalking law too, but it's never enforced and the fine is almost nothing (10$).
  - daef 8y ago
    Wow... I had no idea.
- hesk 8y ago
  Ignoring a red light as a pedestrian carries a 5 € fine in Germany [1]. 10 € if it causes an accident. Jaywalking (crossing the street where you're not supposed to) also carries a 10 € fine. [1] https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/fussgaenger/ https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/fussgaenger/
  - detaro 8y ago
    Note that this says "Kraftstraße", so specially marked, faster streets. "Normal" streets can be crossed everywhere, although if there is a better or explicit crossing spot nearby you have to use it.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    That’s a pretty small fine for some pretty serious consequences…
    - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
      It probably isn't meant to be punitive, just a deterrent. A 5p charge for plastic bags cut the usage massively in the UK.

kzrdude 8y ago

Deterrence is just one way to reduce crime, it doesn't have to be the only factor and like you say, it's just a reduction not a complete fix.

goto11 8y ago

Yes and no. I'm sure more people would park illegally or skip paying bills if there were no punishment. But deterrence is supposed to work at a rational level: The risk of getting caught and the punishment deters you from committing the act. It does not work if you don't act rationally in the first place, e.g. compulsive criminals or other forms of mental illness, drug-affected crimes, crimes of passion/anger etc. For very high stakes you might be willing to take the risk, or your assessment of the risk of getting caught might be off. Or you might just be desperate. I suspect this guy have some mental issues.