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Yeah I bet Assange feels like he's been able to move way too freely until now, so he decided to start raping women! He'll probably tour all Western countries,

Yeah I bet Assange feels like he's been able to move way too freely until now, so he decided to start raping women! He'll probably tour all Western countries, and rape a couple of women in each to make things a little more exciting. Edit: Wow, what was fast! You really believe this is not bullshit? Edit2: Or are we just not allowed to discuss reality on HN? Rainbows & Unicorns are much nicer.

crocowhile 16y ago
I don't see why you are being downvoted. The allegation of rapes, both filed on the same day, sound like the cheapest way to get an international mandate for him indeed.
- roel_v 16y ago
  The question is, is there any factual proof that the claim is a fabrication, or is it all a big conspiracy theory? If Assange commits a crime, is it always made up because he ticked off the government? Merely claiming it's a trumped up charge for the sole reason that he's the Wikileaks guy is not a strong argument. (it's not a valid argument at all, I'd say).
  - Alex3917 16y ago
    The last two biggest enemies of the U.S. government had wars started against them based on made up evidence. How many more times does this have to happen before the default position is assuming that the charges are trumped up?
  - noarchy 16y ago
    "The question is, is there any factual proof that the claim is a fabrication, or is it all a big conspiracy theory?" That's not how most legal systems work. The prosecution is the one with the burden of proof. That said, for all I know, Assange may indeed be guilty. Perhaps we'll find out.
    - roel_v 16y ago
      Well yeah legal system, but the burden of proof for the public opinion is different. If a rapist is acquitted because of a legal procedural error, did he not do it? Of course not, he's still a rapist. He's not send to jail for it though. Those are different things. 'innocent until proven guilty' is a purely legal axiom, not more. Not being proven guilty by the standards set by law doesn't make someone not guilty. The OP was, as I understood it, not making a legal claim, but merely stating his opinion on whether or not what he is accused of did or did not happen. Proof on this position can come from both sides, but claiming that it must not have happened because the government is after him does not pass Ockham's razor.
      - drivebyacct2 16y ago
        The legal system works that way for a reason and in a perfect world, the court of public opinion would work similarly. It's an all too common occurence to find out that all sorts of allegations of crimes turn out to be false and that the accused is permanently, materially harmed due to the allegation. I have to say, high profile person embarassing a lot of people... I'm a little more skeptical than usual. I'm not dumb enough to give him a free pass just because of who he is, but I'm sure as hell not defaulting to assuming guilt.
  - DuncanIdaho 16y ago
    Probably there is no proof therefore it is a conspiracy theory. However - pitting women against enemies - either to seduce them or to just get them out of the way (via extortion) has happened before.
- gizmomagico 16y ago
  I can see why you're being downvoted though..
  - jhrobert 16y ago
    Looks like a loss/loss deadloop
    - jhrobert 16y ago
      OMG! I got trapped in the loop! -4
allenbrunson 16y ago
You are allowed to discuss reality here. What you are not allowed to do is make jokes about something as repulsive as rape. If you are civil and respectful, you can make any point you want here. You failed that first test, though.
- gizmomagico 16y ago
  Yes, rape is terrible, and judging by your reaction, you're probably American. Was that a racist slur or just an observation? Would it also be terrible to be falsely accused of rape, in an internationally public manner? The problem here is that mine was the first comment to allude to the whole debacle being disgusting bullshit. There weren't almost any comments in the thread, possibly because if you really wanted to discuss this, you'd have to discuss the whole thing being bullshit, and facing the bullshit-laden reality we live in is unpleasant. HN doesn't want to discuss unpleasant realities. That may actually be a good thing for maintaining the high quality of discussions on other, more pleasant subjects - who knows. But on the other hand, spreading awareness of bullshit being bullshit would do us all good in our role of ordinary citizens of various governments.
  - ugh 16y ago
    Do you have any evidence at all for your allegations?
    - gizmomagico 16y ago
      What allegations?
      - ugh 16y ago
        Your allegations that Assange is falsely accused because of some sort of conspiracy.
        gizmomagico 16y ago
        Where's your proof that he isn't? Also: http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=1917913 http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=1917913 Shouldn't you go demand more "proof" from him too, or is it just easier to pile on the heavily downvoted guy? It shouldn't be too hard to see this is all bullshit, and that's what I originally got downvoted for trying to point out (in a less-than-HNesquely-eloquent manner).
Erwin 16y ago
Hans Reiser was, by any account, pretty smart. His journaling filesystem was quite a technological leap over ext2 at the time. Yet he did murder his wife. Some hardcore fans denied his guilt up (some claiming his mild autism was exploited by the prosecution to make him appear guilty) until the very point where he lead the authorities to where he buried the corpse of his wife.
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  Wait, you mean they assumed he was innocent until he was proven guilty. That IS shocking. How dare they.
- grandalf 16y ago
  Do you realize that Assange had nonviolent, consensual sex with those two women and it's only a quirk of the Swedish legal system that the word "rape" being used in relation to the charges against him? Assange's actions would not be a crime under US law, and would by no means be described by anything close to the word rape.
  - nollidge 16y ago
    > and it's only a quirk of the Swedish legal system Source? The NYT article says nothing about the legal criteria here.
    - grandalf 16y ago
      http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71lsqt http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71lsqt
      - nollidge 16y ago
        I'm afraid I'm misunderstanding something. I read the whole press release, and see nothing in there about any Swedish legal "quirks" regarding the definition of rape. In fact, it takes the position that Assange's actions have not met any possible definition of rape: "the allegations...do not constitute what any advanced legal system considers to be rape".

crocowhile 16y ago

I don't see why you are being downvoted. The allegation of rapes, both filed on the same day, sound like the cheapest way to get an international mandate for him indeed.

roel_v 16y ago
The question is, is there any factual proof that the claim is a fabrication, or is it all a big conspiracy theory? If Assange commits a crime, is it always made up because he ticked off the government? Merely claiming it's a trumped up charge for the sole reason that he's the Wikileaks guy is not a strong argument. (it's not a valid argument at all, I'd say).
- Alex3917 16y ago
  The last two biggest enemies of the U.S. government had wars started against them based on made up evidence. How many more times does this have to happen before the default position is assuming that the charges are trumped up?
- noarchy 16y ago
  "The question is, is there any factual proof that the claim is a fabrication, or is it all a big conspiracy theory?" That's not how most legal systems work. The prosecution is the one with the burden of proof. That said, for all I know, Assange may indeed be guilty. Perhaps we'll find out.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    Well yeah legal system, but the burden of proof for the public opinion is different. If a rapist is acquitted because of a legal procedural error, did he not do it? Of course not, he's still a rapist. He's not send to jail for it though. Those are different things. 'innocent until proven guilty' is a purely legal axiom, not more. Not being proven guilty by the standards set by law doesn't make someone not guilty. The OP was, as I understood it, not making a legal claim, but merely stating his opinion on whether or not what he is accused of did or did not happen. Proof on this position can come from both sides, but claiming that it must not have happened because the government is after him does not pass Ockham's razor.
    - drivebyacct2 16y ago
      The legal system works that way for a reason and in a perfect world, the court of public opinion would work similarly. It's an all too common occurence to find out that all sorts of allegations of crimes turn out to be false and that the accused is permanently, materially harmed due to the allegation. I have to say, high profile person embarassing a lot of people... I'm a little more skeptical than usual. I'm not dumb enough to give him a free pass just because of who he is, but I'm sure as hell not defaulting to assuming guilt.
- DuncanIdaho 16y ago
  Probably there is no proof therefore it is a conspiracy theory. However - pitting women against enemies - either to seduce them or to just get them out of the way (via extortion) has happened before.
gizmomagico 16y ago
I can see why you're being downvoted though..
- jhrobert 16y ago
  Looks like a loss/loss deadloop
  - jhrobert 16y ago
    OMG! I got trapped in the loop! -4

allenbrunson 16y ago

You are allowed to discuss reality here. What you are not allowed to do is make jokes about something as repulsive as rape. If you are civil and respectful, you can make any point you want here. You failed that first test, though.

gizmomagico 16y ago
Yes, rape is terrible, and judging by your reaction, you're probably American. Was that a racist slur or just an observation? Would it also be terrible to be falsely accused of rape, in an internationally public manner? The problem here is that mine was the first comment to allude to the whole debacle being disgusting bullshit. There weren't almost any comments in the thread, possibly because if you really wanted to discuss this, you'd have to discuss the whole thing being bullshit, and facing the bullshit-laden reality we live in is unpleasant. HN doesn't want to discuss unpleasant realities. That may actually be a good thing for maintaining the high quality of discussions on other, more pleasant subjects - who knows. But on the other hand, spreading awareness of bullshit being bullshit would do us all good in our role of ordinary citizens of various governments.
- ugh 16y ago
  Do you have any evidence at all for your allegations?
  - gizmomagico 16y ago
    What allegations?
    - ugh 16y ago
      Your allegations that Assange is falsely accused because of some sort of conspiracy.
      - gizmomagico 16y ago
        Where's your proof that he isn't? Also: http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=1917913 http://news.ycombinator.org/item?id=1917913 Shouldn't you go demand more "proof" from him too, or is it just easier to pile on the heavily downvoted guy? It shouldn't be too hard to see this is all bullshit, and that's what I originally got downvoted for trying to point out (in a less-than-HNesquely-eloquent manner).

Erwin 16y ago

Hans Reiser was, by any account, pretty smart. His journaling filesystem was quite a technological leap over ext2 at the time. Yet he did murder his wife. Some hardcore fans denied his guilt up (some claiming his mild autism was exploited by the prosecution to make him appear guilty) until the very point where he lead the authorities to where he buried the corpse of his wife.

drivebyacct2 16y ago
Wait, you mean they assumed he was innocent until he was proven guilty. That IS shocking. How dare they.
grandalf 16y ago
Do you realize that Assange had nonviolent, consensual sex with those two women and it's only a quirk of the Swedish legal system that the word "rape" being used in relation to the charges against him? Assange's actions would not be a crime under US law, and would by no means be described by anything close to the word rape.
- nollidge 16y ago
  > and it's only a quirk of the Swedish legal system Source? The NYT article says nothing about the legal criteria here.
  - grandalf 16y ago
    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71lsqt http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71lsqt
    - nollidge 16y ago
      I'm afraid I'm misunderstanding something. I read the whole press release, and see nothing in there about any Swedish legal "quirks" regarding the definition of rape. In fact, it takes the position that Assange's actions have not met any possible definition of rape: "the allegations...do not constitute what any advanced legal system considers to be rape".