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> What if there's nothing after death... for the rest of eternity? I have been mulling over this for some weeks now, more intensely than ever before in my life

> What if there's nothing after death... for the rest of eternity? I have been mulling over this for some weeks now, more intensely than ever before in my life. I'm only 24 but still terrified of the concept, and frankly it's poisoned every waking hour with a mild to extreme sense of dread and foreboding. My mind tends to fixate and freak out over life problems it can't solve, and this is the ultimate one that no one can solve. I'm glad that I still have a lot of my life ahead of me, but I can't stop fixating on the infinite nothingness afterwards and what that truly means. It's to the point that doing enjoyable things day to day feels worthless and just reminds me that it's still all going to end, no matter what I do, and sends me back down a spiral of fear. I know rationally that I shouldn't let it get to me, because there's nothing I can do, but that just makes me apathetic and hopeless. I'm hoping this is a phase that will just pass but if anyone has real advice for how to move through this I would be very grateful.

User23 8y ago
Religion is a survival technology. It might be of use to you here since this is exactly the problem it's designed to solve. Edit: Here's some evidence: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/church-attendance-happy-pew-research-center_us_5c545b34e4b0bdf0e7daac7f https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/church-attendance-happy... Edit edit: Physical exercise also helps. I suggest resistance training over cardio, because it produces greater endorphin release. YMMV of course. Good luck and hang in there!
yesenadam 8y ago
Well, you also didn't exist before you were born, for a very long time.. Does that bother you too? It's very common to have existential crises (and other related crises) in your teens/20s. I certainly did. I read some philosophy-type books on the meaning of life which helped with that. (Klemke's The Meaning of Life anthology was one I remember that helped a lot.) Ok, so... not living forever seems..bad? So..if you lived forever, that would somehow give you meaning to your life? I can't really see how it would, even if it were possible. An infinite life would probably be infinitely boring. (I don't think people really can imagine forever or eternity) Surely the brevity of life makes its moments more precious. Think on what you're grateful for, treasure the people around you. What an amazing miracle it is to somehow be conscious, alive, here, now, on this planet. I don't think "What is the meaning of life?" is a good question - we give our lives meaning by the things we're involved in. Who cares if they don't last forever? Is a piece of music, a meal, a conversation, a day, the worse for coming to an end? People can help you, and it is a serious problem you are having. Get help if you need it - it's being strong to ask for help. Good luck. p.s. Religion[0] provides answers, but false ones, as far as we know. Believing "we live forever", without any evidence, is just burying your head in the sand. Among the basic facts of life are that we are born and we die. Expecting the universe to be like a child's home, with loving parents and everything designed to make us feel good, a moral universe designed around human desires, is wishful thinking. [0] (which I notice a sibling comment has recommended as a solution)
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  > Religion[0] provides answers, but false ones, as far as we know. It's good to know that this has finally been determined, presumably by teams of qualified scientists, philosophers, and the most honest of holy men. Although, it does seem to render your characterization of consciousness as an "amazing miracle" in a somewhat awkward light.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    "Don't be snarky." Your first sentence seems mere sarcasm, and I don't get what you mean by the second. Only religious people are allowed to use the word 'miracle'? I don't know. If you'd used plain speaking and short words, we could've seen what you really have to say. As it is, I'm left wondering. I said 'as far as we know', which you misrepresent as me saying something about 'finally'. If you have evidence otherwise, you would've mentioned it I suppose; innuendo is all you have. Your quotation in the second sentence also misrepresents what I said. If that matters to you. You wrote like you are on the side of truth before you write a word, that all your audience here will recognize it, that eloquence and long words alone will deliver triumph. Less 'delicacy', more saying what you mean, please.
- jondubois 8y ago
  >> Well, you also didn't exist before you were born, for a very long time.. Does that bother you too? I guess it's nice to think about that because every person who exists can attest for themselves that it is possible to transition from non-living to living. And maybe if it happened once, maybe it can again... If you believe that consciousness is derived from biological material, then maybe the parts of your DNA which are responsible for consciousness will just show up in some parallel universe after a few billion years and you will get a fresh start.
- reading-at-work 8y ago
  > Well, you also didn't exist before you were born, for a very long time.. Does that bother you too? I've heard that line before, and I appreciate the sentiment, but it doesn't seem to help in my case. I don't care that I didn't exist before, I care that I exist now and have to face the inevitability of not existing again. Conversely, I realize that living forever is almost equally insane/terrifying depending on how you look at it. But personally, the end of existence feels worse from a conceptual standpoint. I've heard it put this way before: if you encountered an intelligent being who had no biological mortality, would you try to convince it to manually end its life to make its current moments more "precious?" Probably not. To a certain extent, the "appreciate life because of its fleeting nature" idea just seems like a pretty thing nonreligious people tell themselves to have a similar calming effect. I realize it's likely the only way to actually accept it and get on with my life, it just feels "fake," if that makes sense. Regardless, I appreciate your comments, and yes, I will probably seek professional help in the near future.
b_tterc_p 8y ago
Terror of death is a biological instinct. It’s not a rational thought. You might fear death rationall, but the terror is instinct. Thinking about death stokes that terror, but we do it anyway. Kind of like how when someone tells you something smells bad, you smell it. Wait until you are sick and feel crappy. Not old and weak and dying, just in a shitty cold. If you think about death at that point in time you won’t have any terror. Fun trick. With that in mind I think this notion becomes more believable. I would suggest trying the inverse of a mind palace. Imagine the seed of the terror to be locked behind a chained up door. Before you’re allowed to experience the terror you must imagine mentally opening the door. If you don’t open the door, you can still think about death and muse upon it. You just don’t feel the terror. That’s how I got over it anyway
thebigspacefuck 8y ago
That's just what you believe. Other people believe differently. Why choose to believe something that makes you miserable? Maybe religions are a pack of lies, but if it makes your life better and there's nothing after anyway, what's wrong with it? "Live by the foma that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy." See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokononism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokononism
- reading-at-work 8y ago
  > Maybe religions are a pack of lies, but if it makes your life better and there's nothing after anyway, what's wrong with it? On principle I agree with you, but my mind is too analytical to be able to fool myself with something like that. Even if I manage to maintain faith for a while, eventually the doubt creeps in again and I end up right back where I started.
Pharmakon 8y ago
I’ve struggled with the same thing, and only found one solution that is a choice rather than waiting foe something tomchange. Stop. Thinking. About. It. I know, how unhelpful can I be, right? Hear me out though, I’m not talking about coming to terms with mortality, or focusing on distractions. Recognize instead that what you’re describing has two components interacting in a way that hurts you. First, as an intelligent problem solver you’re used to problems yielding to examination. When you run into a metaphorical wall in your mind, you pick away at it until it breaks down, or you find a way over and around it. You can’t do that with death, because it’s too anathema to all of our experiences. Second, is an obsessive quality to the thinking. This is the part that “poisons every waking hour.” You’ll find idle thoughts drifting to thoughts of mortality, and intrusive thoughts of mortality will pop up. If you’re like me, this will be especially bad at night. You might feel a sort of dreadful fascination, as if by just thinking a bit more or harder could get you past it. Even thinking “I should be rational about this” is effectively another iteration of the same pattern. So, forget about coming to terms with anything, forget about rationality. Look at the toolkits of things like Cogntiive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and just... stop. Then the only things you have to accept are that this pattern of thought is hurting you, and that no amount of thinking will help you to accept or understand extinction. All you will do is reach that point of excruciating terror, and then seek distraction. When you find yourself drifting into thoughts of death, say to yourself “No” and then immediately change mental gears. Especially at first it can help to get a change of scenery for a minute, you can get up and walk around for a minute. Especially at first this will feel like swatting a whale with a feather, but that’s OK. Don’t make a production out of switching gears, just s quick “No” and shift. Like meditating, you have to be wary of a tendency for your redirection to take the form of what you’re trying to redirect from, so keep it simple and formulaic. This will take time, lots of time, months to have any real impact, years to truly give you a sense of control. But... it will help. It’s a good general skill to have too, and meditation of any kind can help to flex these mental muscles. You can also talk to a doctor, or someone who specializes in CBT and seek some help at first. It won’t be required forever, but it can get you started and keep you on track at first. I say all of this as someone who around the age of 9 started to “freak out” about death. Nothing anyone told me helped, I didn’t believe in an afterlife, and considering eternity before my birth was terrifying too. The only thing that helped was just not thinking about, and it has helped a lot. I hope that some of this helps. Just remember that the fear of death is normal, and focus instead on addressing the obsessive habit of thinking about it. The former is too big and impossible, the latter is totally human-scale and something you can do with time and effort.
NateEag 8y ago
I suggest reading the Gospel of John. NKJV translation if you like poetry, or The Message if you have a bad religious experience in your background. My father was born to and raised by an atheist and an agnostic, and grew up to be an atheist who used to publicly dare God to strike him dead, as evidence that God did not exist. His study of organic chemistry in college eventually led him to conclude begrudgingly that a Prime Mover seemed more reasonable than spontaneous generation. He and some friends modeled a minimalist single-cell life form and calculated the odds of spontaneously generating it in ideal circumstances, and he just couldn't call pure atheism plausible after that exercise. A few years later, he read the Bible so he could taunt his Christian friends with all the mistakes and inconsistencies he was sure he'd find. He wound up believing it instead, almost against his will, as he now describes it. Maybe you'll find something similar occurs. If it does, it would resolve the fear of death as a side effect, as Jesus saving us from death is an essential part of the message. If you spend a few hours reading it and walk away utterly unimpressed, then if nothing else you at least have a better knowledge of a major influence on the development of Western culture.
theonemind 8y ago
Zen might help. People have said that if aliens had any game we had, it'd be Go. If they had any religion we had, it'd be Zen, which focuses on the realization of the "nature of reality." Personally, I don't find anything "mystical" or especially "religiony" about the core "doctrine". That's why I call it the religion of the aliens. The core truth has that fundamental discoverable simplicity about it, and addresses the nature of this fear. The aliens won't have Jesus or Muhammed, but strip the incidental trappings on both sides, and they might have Zen, just like they might have Go.
d1zzy 8y ago
I guess it depends on everyone, when I accepted that it's extremely likely there is nothing after death I didn't draw the conclusion that everything is pointless (I mean yes, it is if in order to get a purpose you need some kind of eternal continuity) but instead that I should make the best out of the very little time we have and appreciate every waking moment. The question isn't if there is a purpose (there likely isn't), purpose is a human concept after all, our mind trying to find explanations to simplify the world around us. So what if there is no purpose beyond this life and this is everything there is? That's more reason to appreciate it for what it is and to pursue all things that you think you may not regret later on because almost certainly you will be regretting not having done/tried them.
roywiggins 8y ago
This sounds like rumination / intrusive thoughts and very much something a good therapist could help with. You also might just be depressed or anxious generally, and if you get those more under control the death stuff might fade in to the background on its own. Death is scary. Therapy can't solve that. It can probably help you keep the fear of it from infecting the rest of your life. In the interim, check out Stoicism? The Stoics had a very hardheaded, practical sort of approach to philosophy of life, death, and suffering.

User23 8y ago

Religion is a survival technology. It might be of use to you here since this is exactly the problem it's designed to solve. Edit: Here's some evidence: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/church-attendance-happy-pew-research-center_us_5c545b34e4b0bdf0e7daac7f https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/church-attendance-happy... Edit edit: Physical exercise also helps. I suggest resistance training over cardio, because it produces greater endorphin release. YMMV of course. Good luck and hang in there!

yesenadam 8y ago

Well, you also didn't exist before you were born, for a very long time.. Does that bother you too? It's very common to have existential crises (and other related crises) in your teens/20s. I certainly did. I read some philosophy-type books on the meaning of life which helped with that. (Klemke's The Meaning of Life anthology was one I remember that helped a lot.) Ok, so... not living forever seems..bad? So..if you lived forever, that would somehow give you meaning to your life? I can't really see how it would, even if it were possible. An infinite life would probably be infinitely boring. (I don't think people really can imagine forever or eternity) Surely the brevity of life makes its moments more precious. Think on what you're grateful for, treasure the people around you. What an amazing miracle it is to somehow be conscious, alive, here, now, on this planet. I don't think "What is the meaning of life?" is a good question - we give our lives meaning by the things we're involved in. Who cares if they don't last forever? Is a piece of music, a meal, a conversation, a day, the worse for coming to an end? People can help you, and it is a serious problem you are having. Get help if you need it - it's being strong to ask for help. Good luck. p.s. Religion[0] provides answers, but false ones, as far as we know. Believing "we live forever", without any evidence, is just burying your head in the sand. Among the basic facts of life are that we are born and we die. Expecting the universe to be like a child's home, with loving parents and everything designed to make us feel good, a moral universe designed around human desires, is wishful thinking. [0] (which I notice a sibling comment has recommended as a solution)

nate_meurer 8y ago
> Religion[0] provides answers, but false ones, as far as we know. It's good to know that this has finally been determined, presumably by teams of qualified scientists, philosophers, and the most honest of holy men. Although, it does seem to render your characterization of consciousness as an "amazing miracle" in a somewhat awkward light.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  "Don't be snarky." Your first sentence seems mere sarcasm, and I don't get what you mean by the second. Only religious people are allowed to use the word 'miracle'? I don't know. If you'd used plain speaking and short words, we could've seen what you really have to say. As it is, I'm left wondering. I said 'as far as we know', which you misrepresent as me saying something about 'finally'. If you have evidence otherwise, you would've mentioned it I suppose; innuendo is all you have. Your quotation in the second sentence also misrepresents what I said. If that matters to you. You wrote like you are on the side of truth before you write a word, that all your audience here will recognize it, that eloquence and long words alone will deliver triumph. Less 'delicacy', more saying what you mean, please.
jondubois 8y ago
>> Well, you also didn't exist before you were born, for a very long time.. Does that bother you too? I guess it's nice to think about that because every person who exists can attest for themselves that it is possible to transition from non-living to living. And maybe if it happened once, maybe it can again... If you believe that consciousness is derived from biological material, then maybe the parts of your DNA which are responsible for consciousness will just show up in some parallel universe after a few billion years and you will get a fresh start.
reading-at-work 8y ago
> Well, you also didn't exist before you were born, for a very long time.. Does that bother you too? I've heard that line before, and I appreciate the sentiment, but it doesn't seem to help in my case. I don't care that I didn't exist before, I care that I exist now and have to face the inevitability of not existing again. Conversely, I realize that living forever is almost equally insane/terrifying depending on how you look at it. But personally, the end of existence feels worse from a conceptual standpoint. I've heard it put this way before: if you encountered an intelligent being who had no biological mortality, would you try to convince it to manually end its life to make its current moments more "precious?" Probably not. To a certain extent, the "appreciate life because of its fleeting nature" idea just seems like a pretty thing nonreligious people tell themselves to have a similar calming effect. I realize it's likely the only way to actually accept it and get on with my life, it just feels "fake," if that makes sense. Regardless, I appreciate your comments, and yes, I will probably seek professional help in the near future.

b_tterc_p 8y ago

Terror of death is a biological instinct. It’s not a rational thought. You might fear death rationall, but the terror is instinct. Thinking about death stokes that terror, but we do it anyway. Kind of like how when someone tells you something smells bad, you smell it. Wait until you are sick and feel crappy. Not old and weak and dying, just in a shitty cold. If you think about death at that point in time you won’t have any terror. Fun trick. With that in mind I think this notion becomes more believable. I would suggest trying the inverse of a mind palace. Imagine the seed of the terror to be locked behind a chained up door. Before you’re allowed to experience the terror you must imagine mentally opening the door. If you don’t open the door, you can still think about death and muse upon it. You just don’t feel the terror. That’s how I got over it anyway

thebigspacefuck 8y ago

That's just what you believe. Other people believe differently. Why choose to believe something that makes you miserable? Maybe religions are a pack of lies, but if it makes your life better and there's nothing after anyway, what's wrong with it? "Live by the foma that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy." See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokononism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokononism

reading-at-work 8y ago
> Maybe religions are a pack of lies, but if it makes your life better and there's nothing after anyway, what's wrong with it? On principle I agree with you, but my mind is too analytical to be able to fool myself with something like that. Even if I manage to maintain faith for a while, eventually the doubt creeps in again and I end up right back where I started.

Pharmakon 8y ago

I’ve struggled with the same thing, and only found one solution that is a choice rather than waiting foe something tomchange. Stop. Thinking. About. It. I know, how unhelpful can I be, right? Hear me out though, I’m not talking about coming to terms with mortality, or focusing on distractions. Recognize instead that what you’re describing has two components interacting in a way that hurts you. First, as an intelligent problem solver you’re used to problems yielding to examination. When you run into a metaphorical wall in your mind, you pick away at it until it breaks down, or you find a way over and around it. You can’t do that with death, because it’s too anathema to all of our experiences. Second, is an obsessive quality to the thinking. This is the part that “poisons every waking hour.” You’ll find idle thoughts drifting to thoughts of mortality, and intrusive thoughts of mortality will pop up. If you’re like me, this will be especially bad at night. You might feel a sort of dreadful fascination, as if by just thinking a bit more or harder could get you past it. Even thinking “I should be rational about this” is effectively another iteration of the same pattern. So, forget about coming to terms with anything, forget about rationality. Look at the toolkits of things like Cogntiive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and just... stop. Then the only things you have to accept are that this pattern of thought is hurting you, and that no amount of thinking will help you to accept or understand extinction. All you will do is reach that point of excruciating terror, and then seek distraction. When you find yourself drifting into thoughts of death, say to yourself “No” and then immediately change mental gears. Especially at first it can help to get a change of scenery for a minute, you can get up and walk around for a minute. Especially at first this will feel like swatting a whale with a feather, but that’s OK. Don’t make a production out of switching gears, just s quick “No” and shift. Like meditating, you have to be wary of a tendency for your redirection to take the form of what you’re trying to redirect from, so keep it simple and formulaic. This will take time, lots of time, months to have any real impact, years to truly give you a sense of control. But... it will help. It’s a good general skill to have too, and meditation of any kind can help to flex these mental muscles. You can also talk to a doctor, or someone who specializes in CBT and seek some help at first. It won’t be required forever, but it can get you started and keep you on track at first. I say all of this as someone who around the age of 9 started to “freak out” about death. Nothing anyone told me helped, I didn’t believe in an afterlife, and considering eternity before my birth was terrifying too. The only thing that helped was just not thinking about, and it has helped a lot. I hope that some of this helps. Just remember that the fear of death is normal, and focus instead on addressing the obsessive habit of thinking about it. The former is too big and impossible, the latter is totally human-scale and something you can do with time and effort.

NateEag 8y ago

I suggest reading the Gospel of John. NKJV translation if you like poetry, or The Message if you have a bad religious experience in your background. My father was born to and raised by an atheist and an agnostic, and grew up to be an atheist who used to publicly dare God to strike him dead, as evidence that God did not exist. His study of organic chemistry in college eventually led him to conclude begrudgingly that a Prime Mover seemed more reasonable than spontaneous generation. He and some friends modeled a minimalist single-cell life form and calculated the odds of spontaneously generating it in ideal circumstances, and he just couldn't call pure atheism plausible after that exercise. A few years later, he read the Bible so he could taunt his Christian friends with all the mistakes and inconsistencies he was sure he'd find. He wound up believing it instead, almost against his will, as he now describes it. Maybe you'll find something similar occurs. If it does, it would resolve the fear of death as a side effect, as Jesus saving us from death is an essential part of the message. If you spend a few hours reading it and walk away utterly unimpressed, then if nothing else you at least have a better knowledge of a major influence on the development of Western culture.

theonemind 8y ago

Zen might help. People have said that if aliens had any game we had, it'd be Go. If they had any religion we had, it'd be Zen, which focuses on the realization of the "nature of reality." Personally, I don't find anything "mystical" or especially "religiony" about the core "doctrine". That's why I call it the religion of the aliens. The core truth has that fundamental discoverable simplicity about it, and addresses the nature of this fear. The aliens won't have Jesus or Muhammed, but strip the incidental trappings on both sides, and they might have Zen, just like they might have Go.

d1zzy 8y ago

I guess it depends on everyone, when I accepted that it's extremely likely there is nothing after death I didn't draw the conclusion that everything is pointless (I mean yes, it is if in order to get a purpose you need some kind of eternal continuity) but instead that I should make the best out of the very little time we have and appreciate every waking moment. The question isn't if there is a purpose (there likely isn't), purpose is a human concept after all, our mind trying to find explanations to simplify the world around us. So what if there is no purpose beyond this life and this is everything there is? That's more reason to appreciate it for what it is and to pursue all things that you think you may not regret later on because almost certainly you will be regretting not having done/tried them.

roywiggins 8y ago

This sounds like rumination / intrusive thoughts and very much something a good therapist could help with. You also might just be depressed or anxious generally, and if you get those more under control the death stuff might fade in to the background on its own. Death is scary. Therapy can't solve that. It can probably help you keep the fear of it from infecting the rest of your life. In the interim, check out Stoicism? The Stoics had a very hardheaded, practical sort of approach to philosophy of life, death, and suffering.