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Your argument that people with good credit pay less to use the network is sound, and in that sense it almost constitutes a minor poverty trap. But to call it ta

Your argument that people with good credit pay less to use the network is sound, and in that sense it almost constitutes a minor poverty trap. But to call it taxation ignored all of the remarkable innovations that the card brands have made. They have successfully managed to connect nearly all of the worlds banks together in a way that facilitates almost instantaneous payments between them. Sure this innovation is old, but that doesn’t make it any less valuable to consumers. It’s still so valuable today, that a lot of our modern day payment innovations are still based on those very networks. Try and think back to a time before payment brand networks, and how tedious payments were then (especially international one) before dismissing the value of the card brands.

anoncake 8y ago
> But to call it taxation ignored all of the remarkable innovations that the card brands have made. So something is only taxation if the money is wasted in your view?
- AmericanChopper 8y ago
  I think a tax is any compulsory fee levied by the state. Even if you generalise the concept to all compulsory fees, I don't think it fits in here. You're free to not use the card brands payment networks, and pay them no fees. You can say that it's not practical to do so because that would severely limit your ability to pay for goods and services, but that's what transactions were like before the card brands innovated the industry. They render a service that provides extraordinary convenience for consumers, that's what you're paying for. It's no more a tax than any other expense that's factored into the margins of the goods and services you buy.
  - Armisael16 8y ago
    It is compulsory fee if merchants don't offer a cash-discount.
    - AmericanChopper 8y ago
      Visa doesn't collect any fees on cash transactions. This argument gets contrived pretty quickly. When you go to a restaurant, technically the cost of toilet paper is factored into your bill whether you go to the bathroom or not. If you shop online, technically the cost of rent for the retailers brick and mortar stores will be factored into the price. Transaction fees aren't a tax, they're the price paid for consuming a service.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  > So something is only taxation if the money is wasted in your view? Sometimes I wonder if half the problems we have in this century stem from our eagerness to slap labels onto things instead of just letting them be themselves.

anoncake 8y ago

> But to call it taxation ignored all of the remarkable innovations that the card brands have made. So something is only taxation if the money is wasted in your view?

AmericanChopper 8y ago
I think a tax is any compulsory fee levied by the state. Even if you generalise the concept to all compulsory fees, I don't think it fits in here. You're free to not use the card brands payment networks, and pay them no fees. You can say that it's not practical to do so because that would severely limit your ability to pay for goods and services, but that's what transactions were like before the card brands innovated the industry. They render a service that provides extraordinary convenience for consumers, that's what you're paying for. It's no more a tax than any other expense that's factored into the margins of the goods and services you buy.
- Armisael16 8y ago
  It is compulsory fee if merchants don't offer a cash-discount.
  - AmericanChopper 8y ago
    Visa doesn't collect any fees on cash transactions. This argument gets contrived pretty quickly. When you go to a restaurant, technically the cost of toilet paper is factored into your bill whether you go to the bathroom or not. If you shop online, technically the cost of rent for the retailers brick and mortar stores will be factored into the price. Transaction fees aren't a tax, they're the price paid for consuming a service.
mehrdadn 8y ago
> So something is only taxation if the money is wasted in your view? Sometimes I wonder if half the problems we have in this century stem from our eagerness to slap labels onto things instead of just letting them be themselves.