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I don't know how nuclear can be considered remotely "carbon free" if you take into account the usually-externalised emissions incurred in mining, refining and p

I don't know how nuclear can be considered remotely "carbon free" if you take into account the usually-externalised emissions incurred in mining, refining and processing the uranium ores into fuels. Then, too, I've seen no figures on the carbon costs of nuclear waste-management.

acidburnNSA 8y ago
Those are all considered in the lifecycle emissions calculations done by folks like the IPCC, who released these data [1]. It considers mining, construction, transportation, waste, etc. of all energy sources so they can be compared for energy policy purposes. E=MC2 is an amazing thing. [1] https://partofthething.com/thoughts/wp-content/uploads/ipcc-co2-of-fuels.png https://partofthething.com/thoughts/wp-content/uploads/ipcc-... Source: Schlomer S., et.al., 2014: Annex III: Technology-specific cost and performance parameters. In: Climate Change 2014: Mitigation of Climate Change. Contribution of Working Group III to the 5th Assessment Report of the IPCC
tomatotomato37 8y ago
Uranium mining is a tiny operation due to it's absurd energy density. I wouldn't be surprised if the mining cost of rare Earth's used to maintain broken solar units surpasses it it's so insignificant. Besides most countries with a nuclear weapons program end up with a lot of reactor-grade uranium lying about anyway, and those countries also happen to be the biggest polluters in energy
- zkms 8y ago
  > I wouldn't be surprised if the mining cost of rare Earth's used to maintain broken solar units surpasses it it's so insignificant. Yeah, there's plenty of very unpleasant chemistry involved in making PV panels and I strongly doubt that the wastes involved in the associated mining/manufacturing/disposal processes are treated anywhere nearly as carefully as nuclear waste (not to speak of the fact that due to sheer energy density difference, PV panels will produce far more waste than nuclear fuel/reactors).
- mimixco 8y ago
  No, it's actually a terribly polluting and inefficient mining process. Only a tiny fraction of what is dug up is usable. It requires many (even more toxic) steps in order to turned into fuel. There's a good documentary about uranium tailings and how they pollute the local water permanently. Besides, there isn't enough uranium in the world to provide baseload nuclear power that would replace coal.
roenxi 8y ago
Australian mining engineer here. Based on some pretty basic evidence [0] I'd assume uranium mining is several orders of magnitude less damaging than other energy sources, and probably has a decisive "carbon free" advantage over wind and solar once you factor those externalities in. Australia is a top-3 uranium producer [1], we have 3 mines. That rounds to 0 in Australian mining terms. Olympic Dam is a monster in relative terms, and the production numbers are ... by tonnes Olympic Dam isn't even a uranium mine, it is a copper mine. And Olympic Dam [2] is a world class uranium mine afaik. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_p... [2] https://www.bhp.com/-/media/bhp/documents/investors/reports/2008/olympicdamsitepresentation08.pdf?la=en https://www.bhp.com/-/media/bhp/documents/investors/reports/...

acidburnNSA 8y ago

Those are all considered in the lifecycle emissions calculations done by folks like the IPCC, who released these data [1]. It considers mining, construction, transportation, waste, etc. of all energy sources so they can be compared for energy policy purposes. E=MC2 is an amazing thing. [1] https://partofthething.com/thoughts/wp-content/uploads/ipcc-co2-of-fuels.png https://partofthething.com/thoughts/wp-content/uploads/ipcc-... Source: Schlomer S., et.al., 2014: Annex III: Technology-specific cost and performance parameters. In: Climate Change 2014: Mitigation of Climate Change. Contribution of Working Group III to the 5th Assessment Report of the IPCC

tomatotomato37 8y ago

Uranium mining is a tiny operation due to it's absurd energy density. I wouldn't be surprised if the mining cost of rare Earth's used to maintain broken solar units surpasses it it's so insignificant. Besides most countries with a nuclear weapons program end up with a lot of reactor-grade uranium lying about anyway, and those countries also happen to be the biggest polluters in energy

zkms 8y ago
> I wouldn't be surprised if the mining cost of rare Earth's used to maintain broken solar units surpasses it it's so insignificant. Yeah, there's plenty of very unpleasant chemistry involved in making PV panels and I strongly doubt that the wastes involved in the associated mining/manufacturing/disposal processes are treated anywhere nearly as carefully as nuclear waste (not to speak of the fact that due to sheer energy density difference, PV panels will produce far more waste than nuclear fuel/reactors).
mimixco 8y ago
No, it's actually a terribly polluting and inefficient mining process. Only a tiny fraction of what is dug up is usable. It requires many (even more toxic) steps in order to turned into fuel. There's a good documentary about uranium tailings and how they pollute the local water permanently. Besides, there isn't enough uranium in the world to provide baseload nuclear power that would replace coal.

roenxi 8y ago

Australian mining engineer here. Based on some pretty basic evidence [0] I'd assume uranium mining is several orders of magnitude less damaging than other energy sources, and probably has a decisive "carbon free" advantage over wind and solar once you factor those externalities in. Australia is a top-3 uranium producer [1], we have 3 mines. That rounds to 0 in Australian mining terms. Olympic Dam is a monster in relative terms, and the production numbers are ... by tonnes Olympic Dam isn't even a uranium mine, it is a copper mine. And Olympic Dam [2] is a world class uranium mine afaik. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_p... [2] https://www.bhp.com/-/media/bhp/documents/investors/reports/2008/olympicdamsitepresentation08.pdf?la=en https://www.bhp.com/-/media/bhp/documents/investors/reports/...