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> The last thing the Internet needs is even more dependence upon Google. This doesn't change that? It's a google streaming device that in order to function at

> The last thing the Internet needs is even more dependence upon Google. This doesn't change that? It's a google streaming device that in order to function at all requires a connection to google's data centers. Why does it matter if that connection happens via 8.8.8.8 or some other IP resolved by a different DNS server? What is the actual, practical difference of that? It's still connecting to Google in order to provide the singular feature of the device. And if you didn't want that, then don't buy the product? It's not exactly surprising that an internet streaming stick requires connecting to the product's cloud services, is it? If they hardcoded some other google IP and it wasn't a DNS server at all, would that still bother you to the same degree? Would you still be ranting about a "free and open internet"? If not, then your objections in this case are probably misguided to say the least. Because this is really just an implementation detail of the Cast device connecting to the Cast servers. It doesn't change your privacy. It doesn't change the shape of the internet. It doesn't change anything significant. And if you really, desperately care for some reason you can route 8.8.8.8 wherever you want. Otherwise by blocking 8.8.8.8 you're breaking the free & open nature of the internet. You've done the thing you're ranting against and censored the internet.

calibas 8y ago
I never suggested blocking 8.8.8.8, I'd think you're replying to the wrong comment but you directly quoted part of mine. I criticize Google and I get called a hypocrite for things I never said...
pishpash 8y ago
You're missing the part where 8.8.8.8 is a Google service for which an open, internet service already exists. If whatever Google's data centers are providing (besides 8.8.8.8) for the device's features also already had open implementations, then yes, the same complaint could be levied. By replacing parts of the internet that were open with non-open solutions, the intent and the consequence are clear. But I will say that that bridge has been crossed long ago. 8.8.8.8 has been hardcoded in so many places today that it may as well be a fixture of the internet, like the search thing, like many other properties of Google that are maybe not monopolies but are 80% of one. There is no internet that does not depend on Google (except in certain Firewalled countries). It's already too late.
- rossjudson 8y ago
  Why do multiple DNS implementations exist? Why do multiple entities run different implementations? Does every DNS contain the same information, and do they all respond the same way? You might find Google's DNS privacy policy to be of interest: https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy
  - pishpash 8y ago
    Google provides what they believe to be improved/more reliable services that they can make guarantees about. The open internet is inherently less than that. Besides the paradox about companies owning proprietary technology to key infrastructure that isn't then shared like early internet technology was, one thing is for sure: Chromecast could have made the tradeoff to use 8.8.8.8 a user choice. When in doubt, ask, but with Google, the culture has always been we know better.
  - _asummers 8y ago
    This is the same question ask asking why multiple companies make maps. Yes, some may be better, but having multiple means that if someone starts to misbehave (being inaccurate, slow, whatever), a user has alternatives. Regardless of Google not connecting to your personal IP or other PII per your link, DNS is still a business endeavor for them and gives them a considerable advantage to their search rankings. Some people are not okay with that. Note also that it does not suggest they can't use that traffic to show you ads in some capacity. To be clear, I use 8.8.8.8, but I understand the aversion. Google is a data vacuum, and being forced to give them more data than they are entitled to is a valid concern.
srcmap 8y ago
"Why does it matter if that connection happens via 8.8.8.8 or some other IP resolved by a different DNS server?" By controlling the DNS server, user can early point doubleclick.net, google analytic to 0.0.0.0. That might be why google wants to control that in the Chromecast. It is a continue war between Jedi the Hackers and the Empire. The young Anakin Skywalker - Do no evil Googlers have felt the (share holders) power of Dark Side. The power felt stronger as the G stock price kept going up. BTW, one can also config a raspberry pi / openwrt device to have subdomain ip of 8.8.8.8 and still resolve the doubleclick.net or all other tracking websites to 0.0.0.0. May the source be with you.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  Which you can do by routing 8.8.8.8 anyway. But you seem to have forgotten this device exclusively runs Google software on it. Why would they be using doubleclick.net on a device with no user input or interaction? Why wouldn't they just build the analytics into the OS?
michaelmrose 8y ago
Choosing to block 8.8.8.8 for devices in your own home is neither censorship nor breaking the free and open nature of the internet. It is baffling how you could imagine it is. It is in fact strange that a device that facilitates streaming from a variety of servers needs to resolve a particular dns server to function. Its obvious that it should need to resolve SOME dns server to function but not a particular one. Clearly it can't update if it can't talk to google but why shouldn't it be able to play local content or stream netflix without talking to a particular google IP?
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  > Clearly it can't update if it can't talk to google but why shouldn't it be able to play local content or stream netflix without talking to a particular google IP? All cast apps & authentication are provided by Google's servers. Once it begins streaming from Netflix then Google isn't involved, but they handle initiation of that connection. Same for local content. And they don't exactly need to hijack DNS to figure out that you're watching Netflix after they launch the Netflix app. And they know when streaming stops. Hence why it switches back to the slide show screensaver when you leave Netflix stopped for a minute or two.
hopler 8y ago
Chromecast is a device that receives a URL from my phone, loads that URL content, and plays the video. Why does it need to depend on Google Cloud at all? Sure, Google connectivity can enhance it, but you don't need Cloud to make a device like this useful. Same thing with the Title routers, where your local network collapses if the Cloud has a problem.

calibas 8y ago

I never suggested blocking 8.8.8.8, I'd think you're replying to the wrong comment but you directly quoted part of mine. I criticize Google and I get called a hypocrite for things I never said...

pishpash 8y ago

You're missing the part where 8.8.8.8 is a Google service for which an open, internet service already exists. If whatever Google's data centers are providing (besides 8.8.8.8) for the device's features also already had open implementations, then yes, the same complaint could be levied. By replacing parts of the internet that were open with non-open solutions, the intent and the consequence are clear. But I will say that that bridge has been crossed long ago. 8.8.8.8 has been hardcoded in so many places today that it may as well be a fixture of the internet, like the search thing, like many other properties of Google that are maybe not monopolies but are 80% of one. There is no internet that does not depend on Google (except in certain Firewalled countries). It's already too late.

rossjudson 8y ago
Why do multiple DNS implementations exist? Why do multiple entities run different implementations? Does every DNS contain the same information, and do they all respond the same way? You might find Google's DNS privacy policy to be of interest: https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy
- pishpash 8y ago
  Google provides what they believe to be improved/more reliable services that they can make guarantees about. The open internet is inherently less than that. Besides the paradox about companies owning proprietary technology to key infrastructure that isn't then shared like early internet technology was, one thing is for sure: Chromecast could have made the tradeoff to use 8.8.8.8 a user choice. When in doubt, ask, but with Google, the culture has always been we know better.
- _asummers 8y ago
  This is the same question ask asking why multiple companies make maps. Yes, some may be better, but having multiple means that if someone starts to misbehave (being inaccurate, slow, whatever), a user has alternatives. Regardless of Google not connecting to your personal IP or other PII per your link, DNS is still a business endeavor for them and gives them a considerable advantage to their search rankings. Some people are not okay with that. Note also that it does not suggest they can't use that traffic to show you ads in some capacity. To be clear, I use 8.8.8.8, but I understand the aversion. Google is a data vacuum, and being forced to give them more data than they are entitled to is a valid concern.

srcmap 8y ago

"Why does it matter if that connection happens via 8.8.8.8 or some other IP resolved by a different DNS server?" By controlling the DNS server, user can early point doubleclick.net, google analytic to 0.0.0.0. That might be why google wants to control that in the Chromecast. It is a continue war between Jedi the Hackers and the Empire. The young Anakin Skywalker - Do no evil Googlers have felt the (share holders) power of Dark Side. The power felt stronger as the G stock price kept going up. BTW, one can also config a raspberry pi / openwrt device to have subdomain ip of 8.8.8.8 and still resolve the doubleclick.net or all other tracking websites to 0.0.0.0. May the source be with you.

kllrnohj 8y ago
Which you can do by routing 8.8.8.8 anyway. But you seem to have forgotten this device exclusively runs Google software on it. Why would they be using doubleclick.net on a device with no user input or interaction? Why wouldn't they just build the analytics into the OS?

michaelmrose 8y ago

Choosing to block 8.8.8.8 for devices in your own home is neither censorship nor breaking the free and open nature of the internet. It is baffling how you could imagine it is. It is in fact strange that a device that facilitates streaming from a variety of servers needs to resolve a particular dns server to function. Its obvious that it should need to resolve SOME dns server to function but not a particular one. Clearly it can't update if it can't talk to google but why shouldn't it be able to play local content or stream netflix without talking to a particular google IP?

kllrnohj 8y ago
> Clearly it can't update if it can't talk to google but why shouldn't it be able to play local content or stream netflix without talking to a particular google IP? All cast apps & authentication are provided by Google's servers. Once it begins streaming from Netflix then Google isn't involved, but they handle initiation of that connection. Same for local content. And they don't exactly need to hijack DNS to figure out that you're watching Netflix after they launch the Netflix app. And they know when streaming stops. Hence why it switches back to the slide show screensaver when you leave Netflix stopped for a minute or two.

hopler 8y ago

Chromecast is a device that receives a URL from my phone, loads that URL content, and plays the video. Why does it need to depend on Google Cloud at all? Sure, Google connectivity can enhance it, but you don't need Cloud to make a device like this useful. Same thing with the Title routers, where your local network collapses if the Cloud has a problem.