4 ms·

Gotta love Paul's approach. Amazing to see things that break when you run a black hole DNS server on your inside network. I have a Samsung TV that won't complet

Gotta love Paul's approach. Amazing to see things that break when you run a black hole DNS server on your inside network. I have a Samsung TV that won't complete boot until it has verified there aren't any firmware updates at Samsung. I finally resorted to copying the http response traffic and having an a bit of code on my RasPi return it when the TV asks (it says "no new firmware for you"). Of course these sorts of tricks will fail when vendors get wise to them and start returning an encrypted time and date nonce in the response.

mrweasel 8y ago
The extend to which modern appliances feel a need to be internet connected is getting ridicules. My TV isn't going to be internet connected, even if it's able to. It simply have no reason to. Smart TVs in particular should not be a thing. The TV manufactures have proven themself incapable of writing and maintaining software, so at this point they should accept defeat and just produce the TVs with enough HDMI connections.
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  > My TV isn't going to be internet connected, even if it's able to. I admire your sentiment but recognize that on the current path that means at some point in the future this choice will mean "I don't have a TV." What is missed here, and alluded to in other comments, is that the costs for things are being subsidized by selling the digital exhaust they generate. Creating more exhaust means more margin, less (or even zero) exhaust means less margin. Since consumer electronics compete on price, a zero exhaust device will cost more and won't sell as well. So the market won't produce them. Further, the ability to convert a consumer device to one that generates zero exhaust will get targeted, and since there is no way to "win" that race, the final act will be a consumer device that refuses to operate if its ability to spew digital breadcrumbs is disrupted. Just like HP "all in one" printers will refuse to scan a document if they are low on ink. They don't need ink to scan, but the purpose of the printer is to create a recurring revenue stream for high margin ink, so all functions are in service to that purpose. Allowing utility that would mitigate the need to buy ink is unacceptable.
  - mrweasel 8y ago
    Sadly I have to agree with you, that is the way we're heading. Short term, for TVs, I can just buy a large monitor and a sound bar, if I'm willing to pay more. Your general concept for "digital exhaust" is good though. It's extremely clear in phones. I can either pay a for Apple and limit my exhaust, or I can get an Android phone and pay the difference with my data.
  - userbinator 8y ago
    This article from a while back (almost 6 years!) turned me off the idea of "smart" TVs completely: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426 Fortunately, you can currently still spend a little extra to "stupify" a smart TV --- figure out what LCD panel it uses, then replace the "smart" part of it with a suitable driver board (search the Internet for "HDMI LVDS" --- these are basically what computer monitors use.) Interfaces are reasonably standard so they're compatible with a wide range of panels. Example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-bit-lvds-controller-for-panel-T420HW08-V1-42-LCD-with-HDMI-VGA-and-audio-Output/32864868790.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-bit-lvds-controller-for-p...
- slededit 8y ago
  A lot of people I know are specifically shopping for smart TVs. They want a Netflix box with a screen.

mrweasel 8y ago

The extend to which modern appliances feel a need to be internet connected is getting ridicules. My TV isn't going to be internet connected, even if it's able to. It simply have no reason to. Smart TVs in particular should not be a thing. The TV manufactures have proven themself incapable of writing and maintaining software, so at this point they should accept defeat and just produce the TVs with enough HDMI connections.

ChuckMcM 8y ago
> My TV isn't going to be internet connected, even if it's able to. I admire your sentiment but recognize that on the current path that means at some point in the future this choice will mean "I don't have a TV." What is missed here, and alluded to in other comments, is that the costs for things are being subsidized by selling the digital exhaust they generate. Creating more exhaust means more margin, less (or even zero) exhaust means less margin. Since consumer electronics compete on price, a zero exhaust device will cost more and won't sell as well. So the market won't produce them. Further, the ability to convert a consumer device to one that generates zero exhaust will get targeted, and since there is no way to "win" that race, the final act will be a consumer device that refuses to operate if its ability to spew digital breadcrumbs is disrupted. Just like HP "all in one" printers will refuse to scan a document if they are low on ink. They don't need ink to scan, but the purpose of the printer is to create a recurring revenue stream for high margin ink, so all functions are in service to that purpose. Allowing utility that would mitigate the need to buy ink is unacceptable.
- mrweasel 8y ago
  Sadly I have to agree with you, that is the way we're heading. Short term, for TVs, I can just buy a large monitor and a sound bar, if I'm willing to pay more. Your general concept for "digital exhaust" is good though. It's extremely clear in phones. I can either pay a for Apple and limit my exhaust, or I can get an Android phone and pay the difference with my data.
- userbinator 8y ago
  This article from a while back (almost 6 years!) turned me off the idea of "smart" TVs completely: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426 Fortunately, you can currently still spend a little extra to "stupify" a smart TV --- figure out what LCD panel it uses, then replace the "smart" part of it with a suitable driver board (search the Internet for "HDMI LVDS" --- these are basically what computer monitors use.) Interfaces are reasonably standard so they're compatible with a wide range of panels. Example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-bit-lvds-controller-for-panel-T420HW08-V1-42-LCD-with-HDMI-VGA-and-audio-Output/32864868790.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-bit-lvds-controller-for-p...
slededit 8y ago
A lot of people I know are specifically shopping for smart TVs. They want a Netflix box with a screen.