4 ms·

This really drives me nuts. You get this long article about the "discerning coffee connoisseur", and yet you have a picture of the robot pouring coffee in a pap

by carlob 8y ago

This really drives me nuts. You get this long article about the "discerning coffee connoisseur", and yet you have a picture of the robot pouring coffee in a paper cup. To me this is exactly like seeing an article about sommelier and a picture of a guy drinking wine from a paper cup. Well no it's actually much worse: wine is rather cold compared to coffee so it doesn't extract the taste of paper and plastic as much as coffee does. I really really can't understand how anyone would spend over $2 (often significantly more) to drink anything out of a disposable container. One espresso costs them at most $0.20 in beans, electricity and water, you mark it up 10 times, you gotta give me the option of a ceramic or glass cup. Compare that with a glass of wine, which usually is marked up only 2-3 times in a restaurant...

whatshisface 8y ago
Ceramic cups are available for as little as $0.40/each. I think your idea might actually work, even if guests are allowed to bring their cups home. [0] https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html
- carlob 8y ago
  It's not quite "my idea", it's how hot beverages have been served and drank for centuries before the invention of disposable cups. Somewhat related fun fact: did you know that the waffle ice cream cone was invented to make the ice cream "to go" before paper cups were widespread?
- masonic 8y ago
  I wouldn't trust a $0.40 cup from China to be completely free of toxic materials.
mc32 8y ago
Most coffee shops (caffes)[1] normally serve in disposable cups, unless you ask for different, anyway, and upwards of 90% take the disposable cup, 5% bring their own and the rest ask for a house cup —Im approximating but I don’t think I’m far off. [1] Peets, Blue Bottle, Andy Town, Ritual, Starbucks and mom and pops.
- carlob 8y ago
  100% of cafés in Italy serve coffee in non-disposable cups and it rarely costs more than a euro. It's a cultural thing, not economical. Most food and beverages are take out by default in the US.
  - mc32 8y ago
    No doubt. But given the context here of “connoisseur” it’s odd you’d bring up Italian coffee because Starbucks’ Milano Roastery is learning that most Italians aren’t used to and aren’t willing to pay more than a euro or two for coffee which means it’s not the best beans or roast. So very average coffee in fancy cups. As I said, taste is very regional and is subjective. Compare what Russians, Turks or Greeks think good coffee is.
    - carlob 8y ago
      I call bullshit. Go to any grocery store in Italy and the prices range from 1 to 7 euros for a 250 g pack, go to a local roaster and you can go up to 10, yet the cup of espresso is always 0.80-1.20 euros. Why is that? Given the amount of coffee that goes in a cup, the price of that is negligible while you pay for location, service etc. So given these considerations, as an Italian if I pay more than 3 euros for a coffee I expect: * to be served in a bone china cup * to be served by a polite waiter * to be sitting at an outdoors table with view of some major monument * to have a glass of mineral water and a small cookie come with it (As an aside I once had a coffee at one of those fancier Starbucks in the US, it was 4 dollars + tax and honestly not very good) (and I'm not going to get started on a rant on the sheer cultural colonialism and appropriation that goes with what you just said)
  - blacksmith_tb 8y ago
    But typically people drink it quickly in the cafe, don't they? Which is easier when it's a small cup of espresso, as opposed to people in the US getting half a liter of hot milk and sugar with a small amount of espresso added...
MR4D 8y ago
I do. Technically I have a stash (maybe 100+) of the thin-foam cups and lids to go with them. You ask why? One really simple reason - the thermal conductivity is really low both due to low mass and the material. By comparison, putting the coffee in one of my nice Illy collector cups that I've had for a quarter century (and now are probably worth $100-150 per cup) causes some dissonance when I drink it. The cup is cold on a relative basis to the coffee. And my espresso machine does not have a cup heater. And making a cup that hot would be uncomfortable to touch. Ten years ago, I would have thought this was madness, and now I worry about not having access to the cups anymore (I got them through a friend who ordered them commercially). Once you get used to drinking out of such a cup, the coffee is the entire experience. There is no real notice of a cup getting in the way of the frothy goodness of the coffee between the cup and your taste buds.

by carlob 8y ago

whatshisface 8y ago

Ceramic cups are available for as little as $0.40/each. I think your idea might actually work, even if guests are allowed to bring their cups home. [0] https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html

carlob 8y ago
It's not quite "my idea", it's how hot beverages have been served and drank for centuries before the invention of disposable cups. Somewhat related fun fact: did you know that the waffle ice cream cone was invented to make the ice cream "to go" before paper cups were widespread?
masonic 8y ago
I wouldn't trust a $0.40 cup from China to be completely free of toxic materials.

mc32 8y ago

Most coffee shops (caffes)[1] normally serve in disposable cups, unless you ask for different, anyway, and upwards of 90% take the disposable cup, 5% bring their own and the rest ask for a house cup —Im approximating but I don’t think I’m far off. [1] Peets, Blue Bottle, Andy Town, Ritual, Starbucks and mom and pops.

carlob 8y ago
100% of cafés in Italy serve coffee in non-disposable cups and it rarely costs more than a euro. It's a cultural thing, not economical. Most food and beverages are take out by default in the US.
- mc32 8y ago
  No doubt. But given the context here of “connoisseur” it’s odd you’d bring up Italian coffee because Starbucks’ Milano Roastery is learning that most Italians aren’t used to and aren’t willing to pay more than a euro or two for coffee which means it’s not the best beans or roast. So very average coffee in fancy cups. As I said, taste is very regional and is subjective. Compare what Russians, Turks or Greeks think good coffee is.
  - carlob 8y ago
    I call bullshit. Go to any grocery store in Italy and the prices range from 1 to 7 euros for a 250 g pack, go to a local roaster and you can go up to 10, yet the cup of espresso is always 0.80-1.20 euros. Why is that? Given the amount of coffee that goes in a cup, the price of that is negligible while you pay for location, service etc. So given these considerations, as an Italian if I pay more than 3 euros for a coffee I expect: * to be served in a bone china cup * to be served by a polite waiter * to be sitting at an outdoors table with view of some major monument * to have a glass of mineral water and a small cookie come with it (As an aside I once had a coffee at one of those fancier Starbucks in the US, it was 4 dollars + tax and honestly not very good) (and I'm not going to get started on a rant on the sheer cultural colonialism and appropriation that goes with what you just said)
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  But typically people drink it quickly in the cafe, don't they? Which is easier when it's a small cup of espresso, as opposed to people in the US getting half a liter of hot milk and sugar with a small amount of espresso added...

MR4D 8y ago

I do. Technically I have a stash (maybe 100+) of the thin-foam cups and lids to go with them. You ask why? One really simple reason - the thermal conductivity is really low both due to low mass and the material. By comparison, putting the coffee in one of my nice Illy collector cups that I've had for a quarter century (and now are probably worth $100-150 per cup) causes some dissonance when I drink it. The cup is cold on a relative basis to the coffee. And my espresso machine does not have a cup heater. And making a cup that hot would be uncomfortable to touch. Ten years ago, I would have thought this was madness, and now I worry about not having access to the cups anymore (I got them through a friend who ordered them commercially). Once you get used to drinking out of such a cup, the coffee is the entire experience. There is no real notice of a cup getting in the way of the frothy goodness of the coffee between the cup and your taste buds.