5 ms·

What do European banks do when debit card fraud occurs?

by benologist 8y ago

CydeWeys 8y ago
European banks use chip and PIN cards which are much less susceptible to fraud. So they're fine.
- conductr 8y ago
  Am I wrong to assume most fraud is online? How does Europe deal with big data breaches and the like?
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    2-factor auth is typically mandatory when using a chip and PIN card to buy things online. Rather than physically entering the PIN on a keypad, you're doing something through a flow using your user account with the bank. So not only would the random retailer need to be compromised, but the bank would have to be as well.
  - felipelemos 8y ago
    In that case what is the difference between credit and debit usage?
    - benologist 8y ago
      Arbitrary "protection" policies anyone can implement, powered by Visa and Mastercard?
    - jmiserez 8y ago
      In practice, here in Europe credit cards are often worse because the seller can add additional charges after the transaction using just the CC number (even with chip+pin CCs) whereas this is impossible with a chip+pin debit card. And the CC "protection policies" aren't that useful here, in my experience it's near impossible to do a successful chargeback and there are few cards with high cashback.
- felipelemos 8y ago
  And additionally my bank have a block system, I believe around 24/48h between freeze the money and finally withdraw it from my account.
- ars 8y ago
  For certain definitions of fine. If fraud does happen the consumer is usually not believed, because of course, fraud does not happen.
- webmobdev 8y ago
  India probably has the same number of users (or maybe more) of debit card users as the whole of Europe. In India, banks have transferred the liability of debit card frauds directly to the card holder. As far as they are concerned, the cards have EMV chips, and you have to provide a PIN to use the card on every transaction (merchant or ATM). Further, everytime a transaction occurs, the user gets an email and SMS message on their mobile informing them of the same. So ultimately it is presumed to be your fault if your debit card is "misused" in any manner. In fact, there was recently an interesting and controversial indian court case and ruling on debit card usage - A spouse used his wife's card at an ATM to try and withdraw money to pay her medical bills (she had just given birth). The transaction failed (i.e. he didn't get the money) but the amount was debited from the account. They informed the bank and the bank told them that there might be an issue with the ATM and in such cases the amount would be credited back to the account in 24-48 hours. When that didn't they filed a complaint, and the ATM's CCTV footage confirmed that the ATM had not disbursed the money. But since the footage also showed the spouse using the card, and not the card holder, they closed the case stating that since debit card PIN has been shared, the bank is not liable as debit cards are non-transferable. After appealing in various forums, and finally in court, even the court sided with the bank. They further added that if the account holder wanted her husband to withdraw money, she should have given him a self-cheque for the amount, and not her debit card.
webmobdev 8y ago
India probably has the same number of users (or maybe more) of debit card users as the whole of Europe. In India, banks have transferred the liability of debit card frauds directly to the card holder. As far as they are concerned, the cards have EMV chips, and you have to provide a PIN to use the card on every transaction (merchant or ATM). Further, everytime a transaction occurs, the user gets an email and SMS message on their mobile informing them of the same. So ultimately it is presumed to be your fault if your debit card is "misused" in any manner. If you lose your card or suspect fraud, you can always block it through your online net banking account or by calling the bank. In fact, there was recently an interesting and controversial indian court case and ruling on debit card usage - A spouse used his wife's card at an ATM to try and withdraw money to pay her medical bills (she had just given birth). The transaction failed (i.e. he didn't get the money) but the amount was debited from the account. They informed the bank and the bank told them that there might be an issue with the ATM and in such cases the amount would be credited back to the account in 24-48 hours. When that didn't happen, they filed further complaints with the bank and the ATM's CCTV footage confirmed that the ATM had not disbursed the money. But since the footage also showed the spouse using the card, and not the card holder, they closed the case stating that since debit card PIN has been shared, the bank is not liable as debit cards are non-transferable. After appealing in various forums, and finally in court, even the court sided with the bank. They further added that if the account holder wanted her husband to withdraw money, she should have given him a self-cheque for the amount, and not her debit card.
- davidf18 8y ago
  I once did not receive my cash at an ATM at a bank. At the end of the day they cash out the machines and could verify that I didn't receive my cash and credited my account. If the bank didn't disperse the cash after cashing out the machine, then that is theft.

What do European banks do when debit card fraud occurs?

CydeWeys 8y ago

European banks use chip and PIN cards which are much less susceptible to fraud. So they're fine.

conductr 8y ago
Am I wrong to assume most fraud is online? How does Europe deal with big data breaches and the like?
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  2-factor auth is typically mandatory when using a chip and PIN card to buy things online. Rather than physically entering the PIN on a keypad, you're doing something through a flow using your user account with the bank. So not only would the random retailer need to be compromised, but the bank would have to be as well.
- felipelemos 8y ago
  In that case what is the difference between credit and debit usage?
  - benologist 8y ago
    Arbitrary "protection" policies anyone can implement, powered by Visa and Mastercard?
  - jmiserez 8y ago
    In practice, here in Europe credit cards are often worse because the seller can add additional charges after the transaction using just the CC number (even with chip+pin CCs) whereas this is impossible with a chip+pin debit card. And the CC "protection policies" aren't that useful here, in my experience it's near impossible to do a successful chargeback and there are few cards with high cashback.
felipelemos 8y ago
And additionally my bank have a block system, I believe around 24/48h between freeze the money and finally withdraw it from my account.
ars 8y ago
For certain definitions of fine. If fraud does happen the consumer is usually not believed, because of course, fraud does not happen.
webmobdev 8y ago
India probably has the same number of users (or maybe more) of debit card users as the whole of Europe. In India, banks have transferred the liability of debit card frauds directly to the card holder. As far as they are concerned, the cards have EMV chips, and you have to provide a PIN to use the card on every transaction (merchant or ATM). Further, everytime a transaction occurs, the user gets an email and SMS message on their mobile informing them of the same. So ultimately it is presumed to be your fault if your debit card is "misused" in any manner. In fact, there was recently an interesting and controversial indian court case and ruling on debit card usage - A spouse used his wife's card at an ATM to try and withdraw money to pay her medical bills (she had just given birth). The transaction failed (i.e. he didn't get the money) but the amount was debited from the account. They informed the bank and the bank told them that there might be an issue with the ATM and in such cases the amount would be credited back to the account in 24-48 hours. When that didn't they filed a complaint, and the ATM's CCTV footage confirmed that the ATM had not disbursed the money. But since the footage also showed the spouse using the card, and not the card holder, they closed the case stating that since debit card PIN has been shared, the bank is not liable as debit cards are non-transferable. After appealing in various forums, and finally in court, even the court sided with the bank. They further added that if the account holder wanted her husband to withdraw money, she should have given him a self-cheque for the amount, and not her debit card.

webmobdev 8y ago

India probably has the same number of users (or maybe more) of debit card users as the whole of Europe. In India, banks have transferred the liability of debit card frauds directly to the card holder. As far as they are concerned, the cards have EMV chips, and you have to provide a PIN to use the card on every transaction (merchant or ATM). Further, everytime a transaction occurs, the user gets an email and SMS message on their mobile informing them of the same. So ultimately it is presumed to be your fault if your debit card is "misused" in any manner. If you lose your card or suspect fraud, you can always block it through your online net banking account or by calling the bank. In fact, there was recently an interesting and controversial indian court case and ruling on debit card usage - A spouse used his wife's card at an ATM to try and withdraw money to pay her medical bills (she had just given birth). The transaction failed (i.e. he didn't get the money) but the amount was debited from the account. They informed the bank and the bank told them that there might be an issue with the ATM and in such cases the amount would be credited back to the account in 24-48 hours. When that didn't happen, they filed further complaints with the bank and the ATM's CCTV footage confirmed that the ATM had not disbursed the money. But since the footage also showed the spouse using the card, and not the card holder, they closed the case stating that since debit card PIN has been shared, the bank is not liable as debit cards are non-transferable. After appealing in various forums, and finally in court, even the court sided with the bank. They further added that if the account holder wanted her husband to withdraw money, she should have given him a self-cheque for the amount, and not her debit card.

davidf18 8y ago
I once did not receive my cash at an ATM at a bank. At the end of the day they cash out the machines and could verify that I didn't receive my cash and credited my account. If the bank didn't disperse the cash after cashing out the machine, then that is theft.