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>There are jobs that Americans don't want to do.* *At the currently offered price. If illegal immigrants had the same opportunities and rights as American cit

>There are jobs that Americans don't want to do.* *At the currently offered price. If illegal immigrants had the same opportunities and rights as American citizens I suspect that they wouldn't want to do them for that price either after long. It may just be that we will have to deal with paying an extra dollar for a head of lettuce or an extra few dollars an hour for a housekeeper.

dragontamer 8y ago
> *At the currently offered price. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm At only a bachelor's degree, a nurse gets $70k / year on the average. It is a field that is expected to grow dramatically, even more so than computers. Outside of Comp. Sci / IT fields, Registered Nurse is one of the most highly paid bachelor's level jobs out there. If you find a hospital willing to train you up to a Masters Degree to become a Nurse Practitioner, you get well over 100k on the average. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/nurse-anesthetists-nurse-midwives-and-nurse-practitioners.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/nurse-anesthetists-nurse-... Nursing is a field with immediate job opportunities upon graduation, with the ability to train up to 100k+ jobs if you can find a post-secondary training program. DESPITE that, Americans don't typically go into nursing school. So we have to import immigrants. Culture is way deeper than just offering a steady job, a good paycheck, and promotion opportunities. The fact of the matter is, we have a nursing shortage despite it being a decent job. This country needs 15% more Registered Nurses and 30% more Nurse Practitioners over the next decade. And currently, nurses are one of the most overworked jobs because there aren't really enough of them around. > If illegal immigrants Illegal immigrants typically don't become nurses. That's totally a different subject. In any case, if there is an illegal immigrant working as a nurse, I'm inclined to say that they should stay, due to our incredible nursing shortage across this country.
- fuzz4lyfe 8y ago
  I think we have a crossed wire here. A border wall won't prevent any nurses from entering the country. A border wall is explicitly for illegal immigration, legal immigrants just come in the front door. Typically when people say "They do the jobs that Americans won't do" they are talking about things like dish washing, construction labor and farm work. The fact of the matter is Americans won't do those jobs (at the price offered) because they have other options that pay better, offer greater advancement, job security or are less damaging to their bodies. I posit that if you gave illegal immigrants the same options as Americans they would probably make a similar decision. Allowing skilled labor to enter the country is generally beneficial, having two sets of rules for different co-existing populations is not.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    Hmm, it seems that my root reply was poorly aimed. Reading through the comments from the top again, I think I meant to reply to someone else. Oh well, can't change that anymore. > A border wall won't prevent any nurses from entering the country With that being said, my current location is very far away from the border wall, thousands of miles north. I posit that the border wall won't help anybody in my area at all. In my experience, when talking to people who are pro-Wall, it isn't the border that they're interested in. They are generally more rural folk who see great importance in cultural homogeneity. Sure, it sounds great to city-folk to see and experience new cultures. But when you're out on the docks trying to warn people about an incoming storm... and those people don't understand English... and you don't know of anyone nearby who can help you translate (and those people WILL DIE if they go out during the storm), it leads to stressful moments. The "wall" isn't what people want. Its a political rally cry. What people want is for other politicians to understand the importance of cultural homogeneity, especially in rural situations. People in this town should speak English. People in this town should understand boating safety. Etc. etc. There isn't anyone else in the town who can help, so identifying the core cultural requirements to survive and help each other out is important. And finally, what people want is the ability to represent this thought without being called racist. --------- That's my experience on the matter. As such, Democrats are correct to point out the folly of the Wall: it doesn't actually solve any of the problems that Trump's base wants (excepting the small portion of Trump's base which actually live on the border). Or more specifically, the problems I've identified from the people I've talked to at least. I could be wrong, but... that's my understanding of things for now. The problem with Democrats is that they can't see the benefits of cultural homogeneity, likely because they don't live in the rural areas which benefit from these alternative policies. ------------ In any case, the Wall addresses no actual problem. Its fully a distraction. Even if the wall is built, it won't change the Democrat's point of view (or lead to greater understanding between the political parties).
    - fuzz4lyfe 8y ago
      I agree that a wall isn't all that effective for solving this issue. Leaving the laws the same, something like the purposed "tech wall"[0] a combination of machine learning and sensors would probably be more cost effective for the stated purpose. That said leaving things as they are is rather inhumane and since I've been alive I have never seen a serious effort to change our immigration polices from either side, instead it seems like a great deal of effort to maintain the current slave caste system. I don't blame the people coming here, I blame the people encouraging them to do so and then denying them rights when they arrive. [0]https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/13/democrats-now-back-george-w-bush-technological-wal/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/13/democrats-n...

dragontamer 8y ago

> *At the currently offered price. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm At only a bachelor's degree, a nurse gets $70k / year on the average. It is a field that is expected to grow dramatically, even more so than computers. Outside of Comp. Sci / IT fields, Registered Nurse is one of the most highly paid bachelor's level jobs out there. If you find a hospital willing to train you up to a Masters Degree to become a Nurse Practitioner, you get well over 100k on the average. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/nurse-anesthetists-nurse-midwives-and-nurse-practitioners.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/nurse-anesthetists-nurse-... Nursing is a field with immediate job opportunities upon graduation, with the ability to train up to 100k+ jobs if you can find a post-secondary training program. DESPITE that, Americans don't typically go into nursing school. So we have to import immigrants. Culture is way deeper than just offering a steady job, a good paycheck, and promotion opportunities. The fact of the matter is, we have a nursing shortage despite it being a decent job. This country needs 15% more Registered Nurses and 30% more Nurse Practitioners over the next decade. And currently, nurses are one of the most overworked jobs because there aren't really enough of them around. > If illegal immigrants Illegal immigrants typically don't become nurses. That's totally a different subject. In any case, if there is an illegal immigrant working as a nurse, I'm inclined to say that they should stay, due to our incredible nursing shortage across this country.

fuzz4lyfe 8y ago
I think we have a crossed wire here. A border wall won't prevent any nurses from entering the country. A border wall is explicitly for illegal immigration, legal immigrants just come in the front door. Typically when people say "They do the jobs that Americans won't do" they are talking about things like dish washing, construction labor and farm work. The fact of the matter is Americans won't do those jobs (at the price offered) because they have other options that pay better, offer greater advancement, job security or are less damaging to their bodies. I posit that if you gave illegal immigrants the same options as Americans they would probably make a similar decision. Allowing skilled labor to enter the country is generally beneficial, having two sets of rules for different co-existing populations is not.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  Hmm, it seems that my root reply was poorly aimed. Reading through the comments from the top again, I think I meant to reply to someone else. Oh well, can't change that anymore. > A border wall won't prevent any nurses from entering the country With that being said, my current location is very far away from the border wall, thousands of miles north. I posit that the border wall won't help anybody in my area at all. In my experience, when talking to people who are pro-Wall, it isn't the border that they're interested in. They are generally more rural folk who see great importance in cultural homogeneity. Sure, it sounds great to city-folk to see and experience new cultures. But when you're out on the docks trying to warn people about an incoming storm... and those people don't understand English... and you don't know of anyone nearby who can help you translate (and those people WILL DIE if they go out during the storm), it leads to stressful moments. The "wall" isn't what people want. Its a political rally cry. What people want is for other politicians to understand the importance of cultural homogeneity, especially in rural situations. People in this town should speak English. People in this town should understand boating safety. Etc. etc. There isn't anyone else in the town who can help, so identifying the core cultural requirements to survive and help each other out is important. And finally, what people want is the ability to represent this thought without being called racist. --------- That's my experience on the matter. As such, Democrats are correct to point out the folly of the Wall: it doesn't actually solve any of the problems that Trump's base wants (excepting the small portion of Trump's base which actually live on the border). Or more specifically, the problems I've identified from the people I've talked to at least. I could be wrong, but... that's my understanding of things for now. The problem with Democrats is that they can't see the benefits of cultural homogeneity, likely because they don't live in the rural areas which benefit from these alternative policies. ------------ In any case, the Wall addresses no actual problem. Its fully a distraction. Even if the wall is built, it won't change the Democrat's point of view (or lead to greater understanding between the political parties).
  - fuzz4lyfe 8y ago
    I agree that a wall isn't all that effective for solving this issue. Leaving the laws the same, something like the purposed "tech wall"[0] a combination of machine learning and sensors would probably be more cost effective for the stated purpose. That said leaving things as they are is rather inhumane and since I've been alive I have never seen a serious effort to change our immigration polices from either side, instead it seems like a great deal of effort to maintain the current slave caste system. I don't blame the people coming here, I blame the people encouraging them to do so and then denying them rights when they arrive. [0]https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/13/democrats-now-back-george-w-bush-technological-wal/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/13/democrats-n...