4 ms·

That's perfectly reasonable and honestly I agree. If people coming here have the same rights and responsibilities I don't see the issue. The only thing I'd add

That's perfectly reasonable and honestly I agree. If people coming here have the same rights and responsibilities I don't see the issue. The only thing I'd add is it may make sense to have a waiting period for certain welfare programs like the UK does, where you have to pay into the system for a little while before you are eligible in order to prevent people from coming for solely that purpose. Outside of that it seems such a plan would be popular, why isn't anyone framing it this way? Instead I see that we should #DefundICE[0], why is that better than reforming the laws that ICE is enforcing? [0]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/aoc-ice-illegal-immigration-aoc/2019/02/07/id/901772/ https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/aoc-ice-illegal-immigratio...

teucris 8y ago
I won’t try to represent the whole #defundICE movement, but I think that ICE is seen as the government manifestation of immoral immigration policies. So it’s more like #defundICEandReformImmigrationPoliciesToBeMoreHumane but that makes for a terrible hashtag. I think policy makers do a poor job of framing arguments in a way that can be intelligently discussed. That’s one of the reasons I love HN - commenters hold much more nuanced debate.
uniacid 8y ago
I don't think Newsmax is the best source of news on this, you might as well have linked Breitbart. As far as the defund ICE movement, it's just a small movement by a small set of people (namely AOC whom conservatives think is their modern red herring), lets not generalize and say all left leaning people want this when in reality they most likely don't, but you have to understand ICE has been abusing its power and it has also pushed to help create a massive private industry of private prisons housing "illegals" in which you could say should be defunded or more regulated since it's not properly handling people humanely nor are they helping the situation at hand.
- fuzz4lyfe 8y ago
  >I don't think Newsmax is the best source of news on this, you might as well have linked Breitbart. The cspan video in the link has her entire comments unedited for you to review if you doubt she made the statement. I wasn't able to find CNN or Buzzfeed's reporting on the matter I presume they chose to not cover it. I am citeing it for the quote not any of the editorial content, I'd cite the video directly but it's over half an hour long. >As far as the defund ICE movement, it's just a small movement by a small set of people This small set of people are extremely loud, if you have a more reasonable voice please use it. The DNC would be wise here to put forward their plan for immigration because as I see it today AOC and her supporters are driving the conversation from the left at least as far as public perception goes.
  - uniacid 8y ago
    I haven't heard any of the DNC leaders pushing this agenda in any strong manner, also the only reason it might seem like it's loud is maybe due to the fact of conservative outlets pushing the narrative. In regards to an Immigration plan the DNC has time and time again pushed for reforms and debate but nothing has been done not because they are not willing, primarily because the other party loves to lambaste any idea or reform immediately as "open borders" or "Amnesty" when it could be no further from the truth, this is nothing new for us, unfortunately it's just a political cycle at this point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Refo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_reform_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_reform_in_the_Unit...
    - masonic 8y ago
      nothing has been done not because they are not willing, primarily because the other party When the Democrats controlled the entire Federal government in 2009-10 (including filibuster-proof control of the Senate for parts of that term), they did absolutely nothing toward immigration reform. In fact, Charles Schumer himself made speeches in Congress against illegal immigration. They pushed the ACA through with no Republican votes: they could have easily done the same with immigration law.
- deleted 8y ago
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teucris 8y ago

I won’t try to represent the whole #defundICE movement, but I think that ICE is seen as the government manifestation of immoral immigration policies. So it’s more like #defundICEandReformImmigrationPoliciesToBeMoreHumane but that makes for a terrible hashtag. I think policy makers do a poor job of framing arguments in a way that can be intelligently discussed. That’s one of the reasons I love HN - commenters hold much more nuanced debate.

uniacid 8y ago

I don't think Newsmax is the best source of news on this, you might as well have linked Breitbart. As far as the defund ICE movement, it's just a small movement by a small set of people (namely AOC whom conservatives think is their modern red herring), lets not generalize and say all left leaning people want this when in reality they most likely don't, but you have to understand ICE has been abusing its power and it has also pushed to help create a massive private industry of private prisons housing "illegals" in which you could say should be defunded or more regulated since it's not properly handling people humanely nor are they helping the situation at hand.

fuzz4lyfe 8y ago
>I don't think Newsmax is the best source of news on this, you might as well have linked Breitbart. The cspan video in the link has her entire comments unedited for you to review if you doubt she made the statement. I wasn't able to find CNN or Buzzfeed's reporting on the matter I presume they chose to not cover it. I am citeing it for the quote not any of the editorial content, I'd cite the video directly but it's over half an hour long. >As far as the defund ICE movement, it's just a small movement by a small set of people This small set of people are extremely loud, if you have a more reasonable voice please use it. The DNC would be wise here to put forward their plan for immigration because as I see it today AOC and her supporters are driving the conversation from the left at least as far as public perception goes.
- uniacid 8y ago
  I haven't heard any of the DNC leaders pushing this agenda in any strong manner, also the only reason it might seem like it's loud is maybe due to the fact of conservative outlets pushing the narrative. In regards to an Immigration plan the DNC has time and time again pushed for reforms and debate but nothing has been done not because they are not willing, primarily because the other party loves to lambaste any idea or reform immediately as "open borders" or "Amnesty" when it could be no further from the truth, this is nothing new for us, unfortunately it's just a political cycle at this point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Refo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_reform_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_reform_in_the_Unit...
  - masonic 8y ago
    nothing has been done not because they are not willing, primarily because the other party When the Democrats controlled the entire Federal government in 2009-10 (including filibuster-proof control of the Senate for parts of that term), they did absolutely nothing toward immigration reform. In fact, Charles Schumer himself made speeches in Congress against illegal immigration. They pushed the ACA through with no Republican votes: they could have easily done the same with immigration law.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]