4 ms·

This is an incredibly generous reading of the situation that, as far as I can tell, has no basis in reality. Google is circumventing how the internet works at p

This is an incredibly generous reading of the situation that, as far as I can tell, has no basis in reality. Google is circumventing how the internet works at pretty basic level by not respecting users' DNS preferences in favor of their own.

Rapzid 8y ago
The consumer of the DNS is the Chromecast. Its preference is 8.8.8.8 .
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  A Chromecast isn't an agent with free will and intentions, the user is. When I set my DNS settings to a different DNS server than Google's, my preference is just that: different from Google's.
  - jtms 8y ago
    I think your humor detection algorithm needs some enhancement.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  Chromcasts are sentient now? Wow, that should be the headline!
  - Rapzid 8y ago
    I'm clearly meaning the choices made by the Chromecast via the product and service owners and creators. The thing is a consumer IoT device with a lot of blackbox going on. It's consuming the DNS service to provide another service to the end user. How that happens is trivia to most people. I think it's fine to want that configurable and maybe, maybe even expect or ask for it.. But I believe concocting conspiracy and assigning malicious intent so readily, as many are, displays either an ignorance of how products get built for the mass market or a feigning of such. As others who have worked on IoT devices have pointed out, there are rather valid user experience concerns behind baking these "preferences" into the products.
    - JohnFen 8y ago
      Obviously, I knew what you meant. You just expressed it in a humorous (and, I think, not entirely valid) way, granting agency to the device rather than people. > As others who have worked on IoT devices have pointed out, there are rather valid user experience concerns behind baking these "preferences" into the products. Which is something that I have not denied. What I assert is that there absolutely needs to be a way to change that behavior if users wish. The lack of that ability is, in my opinion, something that is harmful, both technically and socially.
- pmontra 8y ago
  The owner of the Chromecast decides which DNS to use, unless we decide that Google keeps owning it and the sale is not a sale.
kllrnohj 8y ago
The internet does not work on top of DNS. DNS works on top of the internet. Nothing about IPv4 was circumvented here, and IPv6 is even built to not need/use DHCP at all. There is no mandate or expectation that all DHCP clients always use the advertised DNS settings. If there was than alternate DNS services like 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8 wouldn't even exist in the first place, as your ISP would be in complete control of your DNS settings unless you splurged for a static IP. The cast client decided to use its own DNS settings as many clients do - you can override the DHCP settings on just about any general purpose OS, for example. Even though they are DHCP clients. Do you call Linux allowing you to specify a DNS server as "circumventing how the internet works at a pretty basic level", too?
- userbinator 8y ago
  Do you call Linux allowing you to specify a DNS server as "circumventing how the internet works at a pretty basic level", too? There's a vast difference between "users can configure it to what they want" and "it's hardcoded and can't be changed".
  - kllrnohj 8y ago
    In both cases the client software ignored the network's settings. It's identical in behavior to the network. Either that's circumventing how the internet works or it isn't. Sounds like you agree that it's not, in fact, circumventing how the internet works?
    - userbinator 8y ago
      The critical difference is whether it is under control of the user.
      - dazilcher 8y ago
        That's a critical difference which has nothing to do with "how the internet works".

Rapzid 8y ago

The consumer of the DNS is the Chromecast. Its preference is 8.8.8.8 .

darpa_escapee 8y ago
A Chromecast isn't an agent with free will and intentions, the user is. When I set my DNS settings to a different DNS server than Google's, my preference is just that: different from Google's.
- jtms 8y ago
  I think your humor detection algorithm needs some enhancement.
JohnFen 8y ago
Chromcasts are sentient now? Wow, that should be the headline!
- Rapzid 8y ago
  I'm clearly meaning the choices made by the Chromecast via the product and service owners and creators. The thing is a consumer IoT device with a lot of blackbox going on. It's consuming the DNS service to provide another service to the end user. How that happens is trivia to most people. I think it's fine to want that configurable and maybe, maybe even expect or ask for it.. But I believe concocting conspiracy and assigning malicious intent so readily, as many are, displays either an ignorance of how products get built for the mass market or a feigning of such. As others who have worked on IoT devices have pointed out, there are rather valid user experience concerns behind baking these "preferences" into the products.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    Obviously, I knew what you meant. You just expressed it in a humorous (and, I think, not entirely valid) way, granting agency to the device rather than people. > As others who have worked on IoT devices have pointed out, there are rather valid user experience concerns behind baking these "preferences" into the products. Which is something that I have not denied. What I assert is that there absolutely needs to be a way to change that behavior if users wish. The lack of that ability is, in my opinion, something that is harmful, both technically and socially.
pmontra 8y ago
The owner of the Chromecast decides which DNS to use, unless we decide that Google keeps owning it and the sale is not a sale.

kllrnohj 8y ago

The internet does not work on top of DNS. DNS works on top of the internet. Nothing about IPv4 was circumvented here, and IPv6 is even built to not need/use DHCP at all. There is no mandate or expectation that all DHCP clients always use the advertised DNS settings. If there was than alternate DNS services like 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8 wouldn't even exist in the first place, as your ISP would be in complete control of your DNS settings unless you splurged for a static IP. The cast client decided to use its own DNS settings as many clients do - you can override the DHCP settings on just about any general purpose OS, for example. Even though they are DHCP clients. Do you call Linux allowing you to specify a DNS server as "circumventing how the internet works at a pretty basic level", too?

userbinator 8y ago
Do you call Linux allowing you to specify a DNS server as "circumventing how the internet works at a pretty basic level", too? There's a vast difference between "users can configure it to what they want" and "it's hardcoded and can't be changed".
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  In both cases the client software ignored the network's settings. It's identical in behavior to the network. Either that's circumventing how the internet works or it isn't. Sounds like you agree that it's not, in fact, circumventing how the internet works?
  - userbinator 8y ago
    The critical difference is whether it is under control of the user.
    - dazilcher 8y ago
      That's a critical difference which has nothing to do with "how the internet works".