6 ms·

Are robots better baristas? Berkeley’s Bbox café thinks so

30 points by incomplete 8y ago

sebringj 8y ago
Just an opinion but this is fantastic tech, just lacks any humanoid resemblance, more like an industrial car factory assembly line. In the future of course, we will have humanoid robots that appeal to our emotions as well because why not?
evv 8y ago
These robots take the space of a human, but it isn't safe for a human to be in there at the same time as the robot. Plus, people can self-optimize. If you put another robot in there, it would barely increase throughput. Two humans would easily fit in that space, and they could roughly double throughput during peak hours. Look to CafeX for a slightly different approach at the exact same concept. Except the whole coffee shop fits in a 2 meter cube. Personally I think the most effective coffee machine won't even use these gigantic industrial robot arms. But they make for an entertaining gimmick.
JacobJans 8y ago
I don't get it. There have been fully-automatic, vending machine style espresso machines around for a long time. This seems to use technology suited for a different purpose; it's certainly a big robot, but it doesn't exactly seem good at making coffee.
- bullfightonmars 8y ago
  Ha. Exactly. This is a very large, expensive, and inefficient vending machine.
zaroth 8y ago
That is a very ugly solution in my opinion. TFA they set out to make a bit of performance art out of it with “machines operating machines” but the result is dystopian not beautiful. Seeing a robotic arm with n degrees of freedom which looks like it could weld cars just to move a coffee cup around in space... And it probably makes terrible coffee. Notice the lack of late art, and the poor quality of the foam.
- metabagel 8y ago
  "I'm getting notes of dried robin's blood, old dirty cashews and just a hint of a robot's bathwater." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eopL9kmMhvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eopL9kmMhvw
- skwb 8y ago
  You can actually get decent milk foam these days with automatic frothers. James Hoffman reviewed an automatic espresso machine, and said that he finds little excuse anymore for subpar latte foam when you can achieve such high quality in a domestic machine. https://youtu.be/fRBOxyu2b2Q?t=319 https://youtu.be/fRBOxyu2b2Q?t=319 Edit: What I mean by this is that we have the current technology to do "decent" latte foam and that anything else should be considered a short cut, human or robot derived.
brucemoose 8y ago
As someone who works remotely I'll go out to the coffee shop for some brief human interaction. Sometimes it's the only time in the day I interact with people outside my home. Personally I don't see the draw to a goofy robotic arm that slings espresso. Vending machines are already a thing, coffee included. This just seems like an excessively expensive way to implement one.
- Gpetrium 8y ago
  I think it is worth noting that if it becomes cost effective to have a robotic arm setting up your coffee and enough customers appreciate the intrinsic benefits, businesses will move towards that direction. In the future, we might see human-led coffee shops as a niche market! In terms of human interaction, just like in the past, humans will always find ways to get their share of interaction.
  - gammateam 8y ago
    > In the future, we might see human-led coffee shops as a niche market! Basically Tokyo right now
- cbau 8y ago
  The draw is that you can get barista-quality espresso drinks for cheaper. Labor is the biggest expense of coffee shops.
  - metabagel 8y ago
    Doesn't sound like it is barista quality. "As for flavor, it tasted like a blend of Nescafé and shelf-stabilized milk. Convenient, serviceable, like coffee from an office vending machine."
    - haihaibye 8y ago
      I'd be interested in them doing a blind taste test. Yes, there's human interaction and other subjective factors going into what people report taste as - much like knowing whether an artist traced a photo when making art (demonstrates skill without technological assistance) But sometimes this changes - eg Europeans initially rejecting Californian and Australian wines, then grading them well in blind tests, then accepting them more (with some hold outs for traditional regions or high prestige makers etc)
dcplogic 8y ago
This seems misguided. I always thought the primary concept of baristas was to make it socially acceptable to pay someone a few dollars in order to have a brief social experience with them.
macpete 8y ago
The foam is really bad - not smooth or creamy and plenty of bubbles
Simulacra 8y ago
Only if we don't have to tip them...
- RileyJames 8y ago
  I’m guessing they will add a tip option within a year. Only it will be a donation to some charity. (Read, tax deduction) Americans have been culturally trained to tip. It’s easy money.
  - magduf 8y ago
    Yep, I finally took a trip to western Europe recently and was shocked at how much cheaper it was to eat out at nice restaurants than in the US. Once you factor in the tax and tip, eating out in the US is very expensive. I was also shocked at how much cheaper decent hotel rooms are there.
spatten 8y ago
Another, more human, take on this from Barista Hustle: https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-death-of-the-death-of-the-barista/ https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-death-of-the-death-of-the... TL;DR (I watched this a couple of months ago, so this is an attempt a remembering the thesis. I also don't know if I agree or not that this is a good future, but it is the future presented in the video) -- the robots are coming, which is going to give us push-button coffee. There will still be people there to give you a human experience, and they'll get to focus on that experience instead of being split between making coffee and talking to you.
- thisacctforreal 8y ago
  Skipped the intro, watched 10 minutes on my break as a part-time barista and it's great so far.
uhtred 8y ago
I'm sorry, but pushing a button on a fully automatic espresso machine does not make the robot a barista. I'd like to see the robot make me an espresso using a semi-automatic espresso machine, making sure to sample the espresso throughout the day to check for over or under extraction, and adjusting the grind to compensate for changes in air pressure and temperature.
- ihuman 8y ago
  > barista noun > a person who makes and serves coffee (such as espresso) to the public https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barista https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barista Sounds to me like this robot is a barista. Do you also think Starbucks baristas aren't baristas, just because they don't work in a high-end coffeeshop?
  - delinka 8y ago
    > person who makes ... Are these robots persons?
    - mc32 8y ago
      Isn’t that limitation because up until now it’s always been people, but in the future could include robots or trained (non human) animals?
      - simple_phrases 8y ago
        Was the Automat staffed with machine waiters?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - uhtred 8y ago
    Oh well done you. I guess I meant the robot is not a good barista.
  - 8y ago
lwkl 8y ago
Is a person that operates a fully automatic coffee machine a barista? I love a good espresso but you can‘t even get that at most places. A lot of people seem to like Starbucks I don‘t think they serve a good espresso. It seems to me that they specialize in hot milkshakes and not coffee.
- audiometry 8y ago
  Hahahaha hot milkshakes. That is so revolting but so accurate.
carlob 8y ago
This really drives me nuts. You get this long article about the "discerning coffee connoisseur", and yet you have a picture of the robot pouring coffee in a paper cup. To me this is exactly like seeing an article about sommelier and a picture of a guy drinking wine from a paper cup. Well no it's actually much worse: wine is rather cold compared to coffee so it doesn't extract the taste of paper and plastic as much as coffee does. I really really can't understand how anyone would spend over $2 (often significantly more) to drink anything out of a disposable container. One espresso costs them at most $0.20 in beans, electricity and water, you mark it up 10 times, you gotta give me the option of a ceramic or glass cup. Compare that with a glass of wine, which usually is marked up only 2-3 times in a restaurant...
- whatshisface 8y ago
  Ceramic cups are available for as little as $0.40/each. I think your idea might actually work, even if guests are allowed to bring their cups home. [0] https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html
  - carlob 8y ago
    It's not quite "my idea", it's how hot beverages have been served and drank for centuries before the invention of disposable cups. Somewhat related fun fact: did you know that the waffle ice cream cone was invented to make the ice cream "to go" before paper cups were widespread?
  - masonic 8y ago
    I wouldn't trust a $0.40 cup from China to be completely free of toxic materials.
- mc32 8y ago
  Most coffee shops (caffes)[1] normally serve in disposable cups, unless you ask for different, anyway, and upwards of 90% take the disposable cup, 5% bring their own and the rest ask for a house cup —Im approximating but I don’t think I’m far off. [1] Peets, Blue Bottle, Andy Town, Ritual, Starbucks and mom and pops.
SatvikBeri 8y ago
CafeX in San Francisco is pretty nice, the major advantage is that it takes up very little space (which saves a lot of money due to the high rents in SF) and it's pretty fast, I generally get my coffee there much faster than from a local Starbucks or Blue Bottle. I don't expect automated cafes to be as good in every way, but if they can get 80% of the way there with higher speed or lower costs they'll have my business.
flog 8y ago
I'm going to go all Australasian Coffee Snob here: They may well be correct for Berkeley, but they've got a large barrier to acceptance outside of the US.
konpoly 8y ago
This is a really interesting idea. If they can replicate what a human barista can do, this has alot of potential. Customers make accounts to order coffee from their phones, so you can send a survey after the person gets their coffee and ask how they liked it. Depending on what they say, the robots can make the coffee a little different next time until they find what the customer likes. So you can have a consistent cup of coffee that is made just for you.
darkpuma 8y ago
Year and years ago, there used to exist a profession where a man behind a bar mixed softdrinks together for customers on demand, often with custom embellishments like cherries, ice cream and the like. This was a very popular, very trendy job. And customers enjoyed the experience. You can still find elderly people today who lament the almost complete demise of the soda jerk. I'm pretty sure barista will eventually go the way of the soda jerk. It's inconceivable to this generation; people can't imagine giving up the 'human touch' and personalization. But one day, maybe 20 years from now or two or three generations from now, convenience of automatic systems will win and the barista will be relegated to one or two retro novelty shops in large cities. And the people in this thread will be the new elderly curmudgeons, complaining about how young people live life too fast and fucked it all up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_jerk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_jerk
RickJWagner 8y ago
I'm a bit surprised to see this at liberal Berkeley. It seems to be poised to wipe out scores of low-skilled retail/labor jobs, at the benefit of the business owners and maybe a mechanical engineer. Reminds me of John Henry from the great Johnny Cash: "Now did the Lord say that machines ought to take place of livin'? And what's a substitute for bread and beans? I ain't seen it! Do engines get rewarded for their steam?" https://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/johnny+cash/the+legend+of+john+henrys+hammer_20235202.html https://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/johnny+cash/the+legend+of+john...

30 points by incomplete 8y ago

Just an opinion but this is fantastic tech, just lacks any humanoid resemblance, more like an industrial car factory assembly line. In the future of course, we will have humanoid robots that appeal to our emotions as well because why not?

evv 8y ago

These robots take the space of a human, but it isn't safe for a human to be in there at the same time as the robot. Plus, people can self-optimize. If you put another robot in there, it would barely increase throughput. Two humans would easily fit in that space, and they could roughly double throughput during peak hours. Look to CafeX for a slightly different approach at the exact same concept. Except the whole coffee shop fits in a 2 meter cube. Personally I think the most effective coffee machine won't even use these gigantic industrial robot arms. But they make for an entertaining gimmick.

JacobJans 8y ago

I don't get it. There have been fully-automatic, vending machine style espresso machines around for a long time. This seems to use technology suited for a different purpose; it's certainly a big robot, but it doesn't exactly seem good at making coffee.

bullfightonmars 8y ago
Ha. Exactly. This is a very large, expensive, and inefficient vending machine.

zaroth 8y ago

That is a very ugly solution in my opinion. TFA they set out to make a bit of performance art out of it with “machines operating machines” but the result is dystopian not beautiful. Seeing a robotic arm with n degrees of freedom which looks like it could weld cars just to move a coffee cup around in space... And it probably makes terrible coffee. Notice the lack of late art, and the poor quality of the foam.

metabagel 8y ago
"I'm getting notes of dried robin's blood, old dirty cashews and just a hint of a robot's bathwater." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eopL9kmMhvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eopL9kmMhvw
skwb 8y ago
You can actually get decent milk foam these days with automatic frothers. James Hoffman reviewed an automatic espresso machine, and said that he finds little excuse anymore for subpar latte foam when you can achieve such high quality in a domestic machine. https://youtu.be/fRBOxyu2b2Q?t=319 https://youtu.be/fRBOxyu2b2Q?t=319 Edit: What I mean by this is that we have the current technology to do "decent" latte foam and that anything else should be considered a short cut, human or robot derived.

brucemoose 8y ago

As someone who works remotely I'll go out to the coffee shop for some brief human interaction. Sometimes it's the only time in the day I interact with people outside my home. Personally I don't see the draw to a goofy robotic arm that slings espresso. Vending machines are already a thing, coffee included. This just seems like an excessively expensive way to implement one.

Gpetrium 8y ago
I think it is worth noting that if it becomes cost effective to have a robotic arm setting up your coffee and enough customers appreciate the intrinsic benefits, businesses will move towards that direction. In the future, we might see human-led coffee shops as a niche market! In terms of human interaction, just like in the past, humans will always find ways to get their share of interaction.
- gammateam 8y ago
  > In the future, we might see human-led coffee shops as a niche market! Basically Tokyo right now
cbau 8y ago
The draw is that you can get barista-quality espresso drinks for cheaper. Labor is the biggest expense of coffee shops.
- metabagel 8y ago
  Doesn't sound like it is barista quality. "As for flavor, it tasted like a blend of Nescafé and shelf-stabilized milk. Convenient, serviceable, like coffee from an office vending machine."
  - haihaibye 8y ago
    I'd be interested in them doing a blind taste test. Yes, there's human interaction and other subjective factors going into what people report taste as - much like knowing whether an artist traced a photo when making art (demonstrates skill without technological assistance) But sometimes this changes - eg Europeans initially rejecting Californian and Australian wines, then grading them well in blind tests, then accepting them more (with some hold outs for traditional regions or high prestige makers etc)

dcplogic 8y ago

This seems misguided. I always thought the primary concept of baristas was to make it socially acceptable to pay someone a few dollars in order to have a brief social experience with them.

macpete 8y ago

The foam is really bad - not smooth or creamy and plenty of bubbles

Simulacra 8y ago

Only if we don't have to tip them...

RileyJames 8y ago
I’m guessing they will add a tip option within a year. Only it will be a donation to some charity. (Read, tax deduction) Americans have been culturally trained to tip. It’s easy money.
- magduf 8y ago
  Yep, I finally took a trip to western Europe recently and was shocked at how much cheaper it was to eat out at nice restaurants than in the US. Once you factor in the tax and tip, eating out in the US is very expensive. I was also shocked at how much cheaper decent hotel rooms are there.

spatten 8y ago

Another, more human, take on this from Barista Hustle: https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-death-of-the-death-of-the-barista/ https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-death-of-the-death-of-the... TL;DR (I watched this a couple of months ago, so this is an attempt a remembering the thesis. I also don't know if I agree or not that this is a good future, but it is the future presented in the video) -- the robots are coming, which is going to give us push-button coffee. There will still be people there to give you a human experience, and they'll get to focus on that experience instead of being split between making coffee and talking to you.

thisacctforreal 8y ago
Skipped the intro, watched 10 minutes on my break as a part-time barista and it's great so far.

uhtred 8y ago

I'm sorry, but pushing a button on a fully automatic espresso machine does not make the robot a barista. I'd like to see the robot make me an espresso using a semi-automatic espresso machine, making sure to sample the espresso throughout the day to check for over or under extraction, and adjusting the grind to compensate for changes in air pressure and temperature.

ihuman 8y ago
> barista noun > a person who makes and serves coffee (such as espresso) to the public https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barista https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barista Sounds to me like this robot is a barista. Do you also think Starbucks baristas aren't baristas, just because they don't work in a high-end coffeeshop?
- delinka 8y ago
  > person who makes ... Are these robots persons?
  - mc32 8y ago
    Isn’t that limitation because up until now it’s always been people, but in the future could include robots or trained (non human) animals?
    - simple_phrases 8y ago
      Was the Automat staffed with machine waiters?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- uhtred 8y ago
  Oh well done you. I guess I meant the robot is not a good barista.
- 8y ago

lwkl 8y ago

Is a person that operates a fully automatic coffee machine a barista? I love a good espresso but you can‘t even get that at most places. A lot of people seem to like Starbucks I don‘t think they serve a good espresso. It seems to me that they specialize in hot milkshakes and not coffee.

audiometry 8y ago
Hahahaha hot milkshakes. That is so revolting but so accurate.

carlob 8y ago

This really drives me nuts. You get this long article about the "discerning coffee connoisseur", and yet you have a picture of the robot pouring coffee in a paper cup. To me this is exactly like seeing an article about sommelier and a picture of a guy drinking wine from a paper cup. Well no it's actually much worse: wine is rather cold compared to coffee so it doesn't extract the taste of paper and plastic as much as coffee does. I really really can't understand how anyone would spend over $2 (often significantly more) to drink anything out of a disposable container. One espresso costs them at most $0.20 in beans, electricity and water, you mark it up 10 times, you gotta give me the option of a ceramic or glass cup. Compare that with a glass of wine, which usually is marked up only 2-3 times in a restaurant...

whatshisface 8y ago
Ceramic cups are available for as little as $0.40/each. I think your idea might actually work, even if guests are allowed to bring their cups home. [0] https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ceramic-cup.html
- carlob 8y ago
  It's not quite "my idea", it's how hot beverages have been served and drank for centuries before the invention of disposable cups. Somewhat related fun fact: did you know that the waffle ice cream cone was invented to make the ice cream "to go" before paper cups were widespread?
- masonic 8y ago
  I wouldn't trust a $0.40 cup from China to be completely free of toxic materials.
mc32 8y ago
Most coffee shops (caffes)[1] normally serve in disposable cups, unless you ask for different, anyway, and upwards of 90% take the disposable cup, 5% bring their own and the rest ask for a house cup —Im approximating but I don’t think I’m far off. [1] Peets, Blue Bottle, Andy Town, Ritual, Starbucks and mom and pops.

SatvikBeri 8y ago

CafeX in San Francisco is pretty nice, the major advantage is that it takes up very little space (which saves a lot of money due to the high rents in SF) and it's pretty fast, I generally get my coffee there much faster than from a local Starbucks or Blue Bottle. I don't expect automated cafes to be as good in every way, but if they can get 80% of the way there with higher speed or lower costs they'll have my business.

flog 8y ago

I'm going to go all Australasian Coffee Snob here: They may well be correct for Berkeley, but they've got a large barrier to acceptance outside of the US.

konpoly 8y ago

This is a really interesting idea. If they can replicate what a human barista can do, this has alot of potential. Customers make accounts to order coffee from their phones, so you can send a survey after the person gets their coffee and ask how they liked it. Depending on what they say, the robots can make the coffee a little different next time until they find what the customer likes. So you can have a consistent cup of coffee that is made just for you.

darkpuma 8y ago

Year and years ago, there used to exist a profession where a man behind a bar mixed softdrinks together for customers on demand, often with custom embellishments like cherries, ice cream and the like. This was a very popular, very trendy job. And customers enjoyed the experience. You can still find elderly people today who lament the almost complete demise of the soda jerk. I'm pretty sure barista will eventually go the way of the soda jerk. It's inconceivable to this generation; people can't imagine giving up the 'human touch' and personalization. But one day, maybe 20 years from now or two or three generations from now, convenience of automatic systems will win and the barista will be relegated to one or two retro novelty shops in large cities. And the people in this thread will be the new elderly curmudgeons, complaining about how young people live life too fast and fucked it all up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_jerk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_jerk

RickJWagner 8y ago

I'm a bit surprised to see this at liberal Berkeley. It seems to be poised to wipe out scores of low-skilled retail/labor jobs, at the benefit of the business owners and maybe a mechanical engineer. Reminds me of John Henry from the great Johnny Cash: "Now did the Lord say that machines ought to take place of livin'? And what's a substitute for bread and beans? I ain't seen it! Do engines get rewarded for their steam?" https://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/johnny+cash/the+legend+of+john+henrys+hammer_20235202.html https://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/johnny+cash/the+legend+of+john...