5 ms·

Google's business is built on web services, and we know for a fact that ISP occasionally try to inject bullshit into their customers browsing sessions via all k

Google's business is built on web services, and we know for a fact that ISP occasionally try to inject bullshit into their customers browsing sessions via all kinds of dirty tricks. Their DNS is also designed to be faster than typical DNS. I wouldn't be surprised if Google sees this as a way to ensure the proper function of their devices.

alias_neo 8y ago
I'm not arguing with that, but lots of us can and do run our own DNS for various reasons, it should respect that, or provide a power-user way to override the default DNS. By all means offer fall-backs to Google DNS if it's not behaving correctly, for the reason you mention. I've found it's also, quite poorly implemented, particular on CC Audios, I had an instance last year where my internet connection went down at my ISP, my DNS saw 10s of thousands of DNS queries per-device from each of my Chromecast Audio devices in the time I was out at work. It was almost 40k DNS queries in ~12 hours, per device. Almost everything else on my network behaved normally, but the Google devices just went mental spamming the network with insane numbers of impossible requests, back-offs are a thing, they should use them.
- freeopinion 8y ago
  DNAT
  - alias_neo 8y ago
    This is what I've done, I mentioned it in another comment, but we shouldn't have to resort to that.
  - pixl97 8y ago
    At least until Google starts DNS over TLS with cert pinning.
darpa_escapee 8y ago
This is an incredibly generous reading of the situation that, as far as I can tell, has no basis in reality. Google is circumventing how the internet works at pretty basic level by not respecting users' DNS preferences in favor of their own.
- Rapzid 8y ago
  The consumer of the DNS is the Chromecast. Its preference is 8.8.8.8 .
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    A Chromecast isn't an agent with free will and intentions, the user is. When I set my DNS settings to a different DNS server than Google's, my preference is just that: different from Google's.
    - jtms 8y ago
      I think your humor detection algorithm needs some enhancement.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    Chromcasts are sentient now? Wow, that should be the headline!
    - Rapzid 8y ago
      I'm clearly meaning the choices made by the Chromecast via the product and service owners and creators. The thing is a consumer IoT device with a lot of blackbox going on. It's consuming the DNS service to provide another service to the end user. How that happens is trivia to most people. I think it's fine to want that configurable and maybe, maybe even expect or ask for it.. But I believe concocting conspiracy and assigning malicious intent so readily, as many are, displays either an ignorance of how products get built for the mass market or a feigning of such. As others who have worked on IoT devices have pointed out, there are rather valid user experience concerns behind baking these "preferences" into the products.
Rebelgecko 8y ago
I suspect it's to keep people from using Pi-holes or other DNS level adblockers. A non-ultra chromecast will totally ignore the routers preferred DNS unless you blackhole 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, then it'll fallback to the DNS server you actually want it to use.
- Laforet 8y ago
  Transparent DNS proxy is a thing, plenty of ISPs have been using them for more than a decade. I know mine does because occasionally they hit a snag and setting your DNS to 8.8.8.8 wont help because any request over port 53 is silently intercepted. Like somebody said below, this is pretty much a non issue unless google starts to force DNSSEC and certificate pinning.
hrez 8y ago
It should obey DHCP or static dns settings like any normal network device. It's so typical of google's attitude of "know better" and imposing arbitrary rules of their own just because they can. This "proper function" actually breaks any function on firewalled network. So paint it as failed.

alias_neo 8y ago

I'm not arguing with that, but lots of us can and do run our own DNS for various reasons, it should respect that, or provide a power-user way to override the default DNS. By all means offer fall-backs to Google DNS if it's not behaving correctly, for the reason you mention. I've found it's also, quite poorly implemented, particular on CC Audios, I had an instance last year where my internet connection went down at my ISP, my DNS saw 10s of thousands of DNS queries per-device from each of my Chromecast Audio devices in the time I was out at work. It was almost 40k DNS queries in ~12 hours, per device. Almost everything else on my network behaved normally, but the Google devices just went mental spamming the network with insane numbers of impossible requests, back-offs are a thing, they should use them.

freeopinion 8y ago
DNAT
- alias_neo 8y ago
  This is what I've done, I mentioned it in another comment, but we shouldn't have to resort to that.
- pixl97 8y ago
  At least until Google starts DNS over TLS with cert pinning.

darpa_escapee 8y ago

This is an incredibly generous reading of the situation that, as far as I can tell, has no basis in reality. Google is circumventing how the internet works at pretty basic level by not respecting users' DNS preferences in favor of their own.

Rapzid 8y ago
The consumer of the DNS is the Chromecast. Its preference is 8.8.8.8 .
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  A Chromecast isn't an agent with free will and intentions, the user is. When I set my DNS settings to a different DNS server than Google's, my preference is just that: different from Google's.
  - jtms 8y ago
    I think your humor detection algorithm needs some enhancement.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  Chromcasts are sentient now? Wow, that should be the headline!
  - Rapzid 8y ago
    I'm clearly meaning the choices made by the Chromecast via the product and service owners and creators. The thing is a consumer IoT device with a lot of blackbox going on. It's consuming the DNS service to provide another service to the end user. How that happens is trivia to most people. I think it's fine to want that configurable and maybe, maybe even expect or ask for it.. But I believe concocting conspiracy and assigning malicious intent so readily, as many are, displays either an ignorance of how products get built for the mass market or a feigning of such. As others who have worked on IoT devices have pointed out, there are rather valid user experience concerns behind baking these "preferences" into the products.

Rebelgecko 8y ago

I suspect it's to keep people from using Pi-holes or other DNS level adblockers. A non-ultra chromecast will totally ignore the routers preferred DNS unless you blackhole 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, then it'll fallback to the DNS server you actually want it to use.

Laforet 8y ago
Transparent DNS proxy is a thing, plenty of ISPs have been using them for more than a decade. I know mine does because occasionally they hit a snag and setting your DNS to 8.8.8.8 wont help because any request over port 53 is silently intercepted. Like somebody said below, this is pretty much a non issue unless google starts to force DNSSEC and certificate pinning.

hrez 8y ago

It should obey DHCP or static dns settings like any normal network device. It's so typical of google's attitude of "know better" and imposing arbitrary rules of their own just because they can. This "proper function" actually breaks any function on firewalled network. So paint it as failed.