4 ms·

The $500M exceptional credit was the issue. That’s a lot of money.

Eridrus 8y ago
Please. No one was talking about the 500m. Everyone was talking about a 3bn giveaway. While some people understood what was happening, most opposition intentionally confused onlookers. And even with the misinformation, the deal was still popular, particularly among Queens residents & PoC.
whatok 8y ago
No one opposing Amazon actually pieced out that portion of it as their reason for opposing it. Be honest. If the $500mm is the real beef with the whole thing then break it down vs jobs: $50mm/yr vs 25,000 jobs paying an average of $150k/yr for a total of $3.75bn of taxable income. At New York State's lowest tax bracket of 4%, that's $150mm. At New York State's highest tax bracket of 8.84%, that's over $330mm.
- anth_anm 8y ago
  > then break it down vs jobs No. No giveaways like this. None. Zero. If Amazon wants welfare for jobs, then tell them to screw off and let another company come in that will employ people without handouts.
  - cthalupa 8y ago
    2.5 billion of the "welfare for jobs" is open to any company coming that meets the requirements of the Excelsior program. So if you want companies to come in without tax incentives, you probably need to go to your congresspeople and get that program turned off.
    - anth_anm 8y ago
      People keep saying this like it's an absurd proposition that no one would be fine with. Also you could restrict the programs a whole lot more, even if you think they should keep existing.
      - cthalupa 8y ago
        I have no real position on whether or not it should exist. I don't know if the positive impact outweighs the cost. But no one in here is making a strong argument for it either way, and neither are you. People can say that Amazon has to go somewhere regardless, so everyone should band together and say no subsidies are ignoring the fact that the subsidies might be what makes it economically possible for Amazon to create these jobs in the first place. Maybe the government gives Amazon $5, they turn it into $30, and Amazon pays the government back $7.50. Or the sum of the economic development in the area results in the government getting back $7.50 for the $5 they spent. And by give, I mean 'Doesn't charge Amazon for come tax season'. Or maybe the government doesn't give Amazon anything, and Amazon or the sum of economic activity still means the government gets $7.50, and they net the whole amount instead of $2.50. I don't know, I'm not an economist or versed enough in the specifics here to have any real idea. But either option is possible, as well as a broad variety of others, but the a significant portion of arguments in here seem to be 'Businesses should never get subsidies because I don't think they should/Bezos is the richest man in the world he can pay for stuff" or "lol the stupid liberals shot themselves in the foot."
- nihonde 8y ago
  Take the $0.5B out of the offer and see what happens. I’m pretty sure you’d close the deal.
Velchronus 8y ago
The 500M was for fixing up the eroding waterfront where they were building the campus. The alternative was allowing the damage to continue or fix it at a higher price themselves.
- nihonde 8y ago
  I don’t want to pay for that either way. Let other developers do it. LIC is gentrifying anyway.

Please. No one was talking about the 500m. Everyone was talking about a 3bn giveaway. While some people understood what was happening, most opposition intentionally confused onlookers. And even with the misinformation, the deal was still popular, particularly among Queens residents & PoC.

whatok 8y ago

No one opposing Amazon actually pieced out that portion of it as their reason for opposing it. Be honest. If the $500mm is the real beef with the whole thing then break it down vs jobs: $50mm/yr vs 25,000 jobs paying an average of $150k/yr for a total of $3.75bn of taxable income. At New York State's lowest tax bracket of 4%, that's $150mm. At New York State's highest tax bracket of 8.84%, that's over $330mm.

anth_anm 8y ago
> then break it down vs jobs No. No giveaways like this. None. Zero. If Amazon wants welfare for jobs, then tell them to screw off and let another company come in that will employ people without handouts.
- cthalupa 8y ago
  2.5 billion of the "welfare for jobs" is open to any company coming that meets the requirements of the Excelsior program. So if you want companies to come in without tax incentives, you probably need to go to your congresspeople and get that program turned off.
  - anth_anm 8y ago
    People keep saying this like it's an absurd proposition that no one would be fine with. Also you could restrict the programs a whole lot more, even if you think they should keep existing.
    - cthalupa 8y ago
      I have no real position on whether or not it should exist. I don't know if the positive impact outweighs the cost. But no one in here is making a strong argument for it either way, and neither are you. People can say that Amazon has to go somewhere regardless, so everyone should band together and say no subsidies are ignoring the fact that the subsidies might be what makes it economically possible for Amazon to create these jobs in the first place. Maybe the government gives Amazon $5, they turn it into $30, and Amazon pays the government back $7.50. Or the sum of the economic development in the area results in the government getting back $7.50 for the $5 they spent. And by give, I mean 'Doesn't charge Amazon for come tax season'. Or maybe the government doesn't give Amazon anything, and Amazon or the sum of economic activity still means the government gets $7.50, and they net the whole amount instead of $2.50. I don't know, I'm not an economist or versed enough in the specifics here to have any real idea. But either option is possible, as well as a broad variety of others, but the a significant portion of arguments in here seem to be 'Businesses should never get subsidies because I don't think they should/Bezos is the richest man in the world he can pay for stuff" or "lol the stupid liberals shot themselves in the foot."
nihonde 8y ago
Take the $0.5B out of the offer and see what happens. I’m pretty sure you’d close the deal.

Velchronus 8y ago

The 500M was for fixing up the eroding waterfront where they were building the campus. The alternative was allowing the damage to continue or fix it at a higher price themselves.

nihonde 8y ago
I don’t want to pay for that either way. Let other developers do it. LIC is gentrifying anyway.