6 ms·

> But why would you care about that? The reason doesn't matter. We should be in control of our own networks. Google shouldn't be deciding for us.

shawnz 8y ago
Would you say that Google is "controlling your network" if they just hard-coded the IP for YouTube? This is effectively the same but with one layer of indirection in between. What's the difference?
fixermark 8y ago
You are in control of your own network. Map 8.8.8.8 to the machine of your choosing.
- dingaling 8y ago
  What if my network is IPv6 only?
  - shawnz 8y ago
    The fact that the device requires IPv4 is a much different complaint than anything to do with the use of the DNS protocol. What if YouTube were just IPv4 only? Then you'd be in the same situation no matter what DNS server you are using.
  - kllrnohj 8y ago
    Then DHCP isn't even used/required and this is all moot as clients are fully allowed (and even expected) to self-configure, including DNS if they want. Heck, DNS advertisement via IPv6-RA is still only even a proposed standard: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6106 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6106 it hasn't been ratified yet, and support isn't widespread.
- pixl97 8y ago
  And when the next update uses DNS over TLS with cert pinning?
treis 8y ago
When did Google decide that you should buy a chromecast?
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  Does Google make the DNS requirement clear pre-purchase, or accept returns over this issue? This isn't the same as coming into your home and forcing you to use Public DNS, sure, but I think people are justified in being annoyed if they buy something, then find an arbitrary and unannounced dependency in it. (I can't find any mention of the DNS requirement by Google, just extensive threads elsewhere about working around the problems it's caused people. It looks like there is a 15-day return window for working devices. That's something, but if I stopped allowing Public DNS on day 16 and my device stopped working, I'd hardly feel like I had fair notice unless it was explicit somewhere in the instructions.)
  - shawnz 8y ago
    Where do they announce all the other IPs that need to be reachable in order to access YouTube? Why is the dependency on 8.8.8.8 being reachable somehow more annoying than the rest?
    - smcl 8y ago
      Well there are nearly infinite ways to route traffic to/from YouTube.com, that is how the internet works. However for this product there is a very hard dependency on this one specific IP address, which isn’t documented and is pretty unreasonable
      - shawnz 8y ago
        > Well there are nearly infinite ways to route traffic to/from YouTube.com, that is how the internet works. I'm talking about the endpoint. YouTube.com resolves to a finite set of IP addresses, and accessing YouTube requires that outgoing traffic is allowed to all of them. All of this is entirely under the control of Google, so how does adding one small additional dependency on 8.8.8.8 affect the end user's control in any way? It's just one more IP address that has to be allowed to be able to use YouTube, and it's equally as documented as the others (i.e. not documented at all). Additionally, 8.8.8.8 uses anycast routing to distribute the requests over many servers. So it's not like having "one fixed IP" is any worse than having one fixed domain, as you seem to be implying. It's not a single point of failure.

shawnz 8y ago

Would you say that Google is "controlling your network" if they just hard-coded the IP for YouTube? This is effectively the same but with one layer of indirection in between. What's the difference?

fixermark 8y ago

You are in control of your own network. Map 8.8.8.8 to the machine of your choosing.

dingaling 8y ago
What if my network is IPv6 only?
- shawnz 8y ago
  The fact that the device requires IPv4 is a much different complaint than anything to do with the use of the DNS protocol. What if YouTube were just IPv4 only? Then you'd be in the same situation no matter what DNS server you are using.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  Then DHCP isn't even used/required and this is all moot as clients are fully allowed (and even expected) to self-configure, including DNS if they want. Heck, DNS advertisement via IPv6-RA is still only even a proposed standard: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6106 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6106 it hasn't been ratified yet, and support isn't widespread.
pixl97 8y ago
And when the next update uses DNS over TLS with cert pinning?

treis 8y ago

When did Google decide that you should buy a chromecast?

Bartweiss 8y ago
Does Google make the DNS requirement clear pre-purchase, or accept returns over this issue? This isn't the same as coming into your home and forcing you to use Public DNS, sure, but I think people are justified in being annoyed if they buy something, then find an arbitrary and unannounced dependency in it. (I can't find any mention of the DNS requirement by Google, just extensive threads elsewhere about working around the problems it's caused people. It looks like there is a 15-day return window for working devices. That's something, but if I stopped allowing Public DNS on day 16 and my device stopped working, I'd hardly feel like I had fair notice unless it was explicit somewhere in the instructions.)
- shawnz 8y ago
  Where do they announce all the other IPs that need to be reachable in order to access YouTube? Why is the dependency on 8.8.8.8 being reachable somehow more annoying than the rest?
  - smcl 8y ago
    Well there are nearly infinite ways to route traffic to/from YouTube.com, that is how the internet works. However for this product there is a very hard dependency on this one specific IP address, which isn’t documented and is pretty unreasonable
    - shawnz 8y ago
      > Well there are nearly infinite ways to route traffic to/from YouTube.com, that is how the internet works. I'm talking about the endpoint. YouTube.com resolves to a finite set of IP addresses, and accessing YouTube requires that outgoing traffic is allowed to all of them. All of this is entirely under the control of Google, so how does adding one small additional dependency on 8.8.8.8 affect the end user's control in any way? It's just one more IP address that has to be allowed to be able to use YouTube, and it's equally as documented as the others (i.e. not documented at all). Additionally, 8.8.8.8 uses anycast routing to distribute the requests over many servers. So it's not like having "one fixed IP" is any worse than having one fixed domain, as you seem to be implying. It's not a single point of failure.