4 ms·

It's really sad that this point has been lost in all of this. Somehow existing programs got spun into the city/state hand delivering a $3bn check to Bezos. Real

by whatok 8y ago

It's really sad that this point has been lost in all of this. Somehow existing programs got spun into the city/state hand delivering a $3bn check to Bezos. Really sad.

downandout 8y ago
Many people form their political opinions these days based on sound bites and tweets. When the self-described socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweets to her 3 million followers asking “Why should corporations that contribute nothing to the pot be in a position to take billions from the public? [1],” by and large her followers don’t ask whether or not that is actually happening. They simply take it as fact and act accordingly. The masses tend to believe simple things told to them by charismatic people, even if those things are grossly misleading or flat out wrong. [1] https://twitter.com/aoc/status/1096194174301495296?s=21 https://twitter.com/aoc/status/1096194174301495296?s=21
mcphage 8y ago
Because if not for Bezos, those funds would have gone to other companies—some of which might have actually needed them, and weren’t just using their clout to try and get free cash while floating on billions in profit.
- whack 8y ago
  So now we're going to blame Bezos for using a incentive-program the way it was expressly meant to be used? Perhaps we should also start shaming white collar professionals who take advantage of 401k plans and Mortgage Interest deductions. If they didn't try to reduce their tax bill, that money could have gone to others who actually needed them. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
  - dingaling 8y ago
    > Don't hate the player, hate the game Without the players, the game ends. Amazon can afford to pay its own costs many times over. Many SMEs cannot. I'd have had a lot of respect for Amazon had they just chosen a site on logistical criteria and built it out of pocket. Instead, I despise them even more than before.
    - whatok 8y ago
      These tax breaks existed long before Amazon planned on moving to New York. SMEs could and still can utilize them if they choose to do so. There's nothing that prevents them from doing so and they also have more incentives available to them than larger businesses.
      - JetSpiegel 8y ago
        > There's nothing that prevents them from doing so If Amazon moved in the public coffers would be 3B smaller and those benefits might not exist.
    - at-fates-hands 8y ago
      > I'd have had a lot of respect for Amazon had they just chosen a site on logistical criteria and built it out of pocket. Amazon is a publicly traded company. Like every company, the point of the business is to generate profit. This means reducing overhead costs in order to do so. Sure, they could do it out of pocket, but why do that when NY was offering standard business incentives to bring them there? Why cost your investors money when you don't need to? Look at any large company, they're going to do the same thing and try and leverage any avenue to reduce overhead costs. It's just smart business, period. Show me a company who paid their own way without any state or local tax breaks and I'll show you 100 fold more who did.
      - dingaling 8y ago
        Amazon doesn't pay dividends, so the magnitude of profit has no direct relevance to shareholders. So if it won't harm the shareholders ( most of whom are secondary-market holders and thus not investors ) why not what is morally right versus technically right? Isn't that what we ask engineers to consider before working for ad networks, for example? Why does that not scale to companies?
        whatok 8y ago
        Whether a company pays a dividend or not has no relevance to whether profit should matter to an investor. I'm not sure what you're trying to make a point about here. Additionally, I'm not sure what your point about "secondary market holders" vs "investors" is about either. Would you mind clarifying these?
  - mcphage 8y ago
    > Don't hate the player, hate the game. Why not both?
  - anth_anm 8y ago
    > Mortgage Interest deductions Can we get rid of those?
- scarejunba 8y ago
  The funds don’t exist. They aren’t going anywhere because NYC now has less money than before not more.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
anth_anm 8y ago
I'm glad, maybe this will lead to a movement cracking down on that sort of corporate welfare in general.

by whatok 8y ago

It's really sad that this point has been lost in all of this. Somehow existing programs got spun into the city/state hand delivering a $3bn check to Bezos. Really sad.

downandout 8y ago

Many people form their political opinions these days based on sound bites and tweets. When the self-described socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweets to her 3 million followers asking “Why should corporations that contribute nothing to the pot be in a position to take billions from the public? [1],” by and large her followers don’t ask whether or not that is actually happening. They simply take it as fact and act accordingly. The masses tend to believe simple things told to them by charismatic people, even if those things are grossly misleading or flat out wrong. [1] https://twitter.com/aoc/status/1096194174301495296?s=21 https://twitter.com/aoc/status/1096194174301495296?s=21

mcphage 8y ago

Because if not for Bezos, those funds would have gone to other companies—some of which might have actually needed them, and weren’t just using their clout to try and get free cash while floating on billions in profit.

whack 8y ago
So now we're going to blame Bezos for using a incentive-program the way it was expressly meant to be used? Perhaps we should also start shaming white collar professionals who take advantage of 401k plans and Mortgage Interest deductions. If they didn't try to reduce their tax bill, that money could have gone to others who actually needed them. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
- dingaling 8y ago
  > Don't hate the player, hate the game Without the players, the game ends. Amazon can afford to pay its own costs many times over. Many SMEs cannot. I'd have had a lot of respect for Amazon had they just chosen a site on logistical criteria and built it out of pocket. Instead, I despise them even more than before.
  - whatok 8y ago
    These tax breaks existed long before Amazon planned on moving to New York. SMEs could and still can utilize them if they choose to do so. There's nothing that prevents them from doing so and they also have more incentives available to them than larger businesses.
    - JetSpiegel 8y ago
      > There's nothing that prevents them from doing so If Amazon moved in the public coffers would be 3B smaller and those benefits might not exist.
  - at-fates-hands 8y ago
    > I'd have had a lot of respect for Amazon had they just chosen a site on logistical criteria and built it out of pocket. Amazon is a publicly traded company. Like every company, the point of the business is to generate profit. This means reducing overhead costs in order to do so. Sure, they could do it out of pocket, but why do that when NY was offering standard business incentives to bring them there? Why cost your investors money when you don't need to? Look at any large company, they're going to do the same thing and try and leverage any avenue to reduce overhead costs. It's just smart business, period. Show me a company who paid their own way without any state or local tax breaks and I'll show you 100 fold more who did.
    - dingaling 8y ago
      Amazon doesn't pay dividends, so the magnitude of profit has no direct relevance to shareholders. So if it won't harm the shareholders ( most of whom are secondary-market holders and thus not investors ) why not what is morally right versus technically right? Isn't that what we ask engineers to consider before working for ad networks, for example? Why does that not scale to companies?
      - whatok 8y ago
        Whether a company pays a dividend or not has no relevance to whether profit should matter to an investor. I'm not sure what you're trying to make a point about here. Additionally, I'm not sure what your point about "secondary market holders" vs "investors" is about either. Would you mind clarifying these?
- mcphage 8y ago
  > Don't hate the player, hate the game. Why not both?
- anth_anm 8y ago
  > Mortgage Interest deductions Can we get rid of those?
scarejunba 8y ago
The funds don’t exist. They aren’t going anywhere because NYC now has less money than before not more.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

anth_anm 8y ago

I'm glad, maybe this will lead to a movement cracking down on that sort of corporate welfare in general.