6 ms·

So, what you’re saying is that there’s not currently $3 billion saved that can now be invested in the schools, subways, etc.

lr4444lr 8y ago
Not sure why you are being downvoted. That is exactly correct.
- tmalsburg2 8y ago
  I didn't downvote OP but assumed that OP's comment was meant to be a sarcastic response to something that AOC wrote about the matter. Sarcasm is rarely a constructive contribution.
  - melling 8y ago
    I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic, I was trying to be explicit by restating. There’s not an extra $3 billion lying around to invest in New York City for other purposes because Amazon canceled the deal.
    - weiming 8y ago
      As it turns out, there really was an AOC-ism of that nature. https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/status/1096123735935987712?s=20 https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/status/1096123735935987712?s...
weiming 8y ago
Over some years, Amazon was to pay some $X in taxes. But they were given a break to pay $3b less assuming some goals are met. The city receives $X - $3b. Now the city receives $0.
- minikites 8y ago
  You're assuming $X was larger than $3 billion, which isn't a given. Look at sports stadium deals, hosting the Olympics, or Wisconsin's giveaway to Foxconn. The city/state budget is usually the loser in these deals.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - whatok 8y ago
    Sports stadiums and the Olympics generate temporary jobs and generally do not have the same economic impact of 25k jobs paying 150k over ten years. Amazon's tax breaks were tied to headcount so it's hard to see how the city would be a loser in this case.
    - minikites 8y ago
      Do you believe Amazon's extortion would have stopped at the first $3 billion and they would have happily paid taxes in full after that? http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon-doesnt-pay-federal-taxes-2019/ http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon-doesnt-pay-federal-taxe...
      - whatok 8y ago
        Who is Amazon extorting in either of these cases? If you have a problem with Amazon following the federal tax code that's existed longer than they have, perhaps you should take it up with your congressional reps.
        mcphage 8y ago
        The point isn’t whether Amazon should or shouldn’t be paying a Federal taxes, it’s whether—given this prior behavior—we would expect them to pay state or city taxes, instead of finding or creating a loophole to get out of them.
        8y ago
- Slartie 8y ago
  But don't forget that they also need to invest $0 into additional infrastructure necessary to accomodate Amazon and deal with various other problems their presence would have created.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  And NY can allocate that 505 million dollars they were going to give to Amazon in the form of a capital grant for something that will benefit the public like infrastructure. >"Now the city receives $0." No, now the city receives zero from Amazon. Or another way to look at it is Now Amazon will get zero access to NYC's talent pool. Meanwhile Google is quietly adding 12K new jobs at a new building in Manhattan and doing so without asking for subsidies or incentives. These will be tax revenues that NYC and NY state didn't have to pay to get. NYC will be just fine. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-plans-large-new-york-city-expansion-1541636579 https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-plans-large-new-york-cit...
- untog 8y ago
  Well, not $0. NYC is a desirable place for many companies, and others will move in to the place Amazon intended to occupy. It might take longer and the companies may be smaller, but it's not like there is now a giant black hole in Queens that can never be filled.
  - joyeuse6701 8y ago
    I think many businesses will think twice about attempting a move to this particular part of NYC, who knows if your company falls into the 'acceptable' category of the government and it's representatives new ideology?
    - untog 8y ago
      I don't think they will. Unless you are a company the size of Amazon (and literally only a couple are) you are not going to have the same problems.
mc32 8y ago
The fallout will be interesting to see: NY State govt is your regular Blue Democrat government, some of NYC, parts which were against this HQ2 deal, are very progressive. The progressives undermined the traditional Democrats. I bet we get to see echoes of this skirmish during the next cycle.
- JetSpiegel 8y ago
  I think it's the opposite, this is an echo of the latest election cycle. Since Hillary was humilliated by Trump the centrist Democrats are losing most political battles, gradually.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Hillary didn’t lose because she was a centrist (Would Biden have lost?). She lost because she’s a bad candidate. She lost to Obama. She is a war hawk. Also lacked Bill's charisma. People in the middle want the government to give them a fair shake, they don’t want handouts. They’re tired of being sold out by government and industry to overseas cheap labor.

lr4444lr 8y ago

Not sure why you are being downvoted. That is exactly correct.

tmalsburg2 8y ago
I didn't downvote OP but assumed that OP's comment was meant to be a sarcastic response to something that AOC wrote about the matter. Sarcasm is rarely a constructive contribution.
- melling 8y ago
  I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic, I was trying to be explicit by restating. There’s not an extra $3 billion lying around to invest in New York City for other purposes because Amazon canceled the deal.
  - weiming 8y ago
    As it turns out, there really was an AOC-ism of that nature. https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/status/1096123735935987712?s=20 https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/status/1096123735935987712?s...

weiming 8y ago

Over some years, Amazon was to pay some $X in taxes. But they were given a break to pay $3b less assuming some goals are met. The city receives $X - $3b. Now the city receives $0.

minikites 8y ago
You're assuming $X was larger than $3 billion, which isn't a given. Look at sports stadium deals, hosting the Olympics, or Wisconsin's giveaway to Foxconn. The city/state budget is usually the loser in these deals.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- whatok 8y ago
  Sports stadiums and the Olympics generate temporary jobs and generally do not have the same economic impact of 25k jobs paying 150k over ten years. Amazon's tax breaks were tied to headcount so it's hard to see how the city would be a loser in this case.
  - minikites 8y ago
    Do you believe Amazon's extortion would have stopped at the first $3 billion and they would have happily paid taxes in full after that? http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon-doesnt-pay-federal-taxes-2019/ http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon-doesnt-pay-federal-taxe...
    - whatok 8y ago
      Who is Amazon extorting in either of these cases? If you have a problem with Amazon following the federal tax code that's existed longer than they have, perhaps you should take it up with your congressional reps.
      - mcphage 8y ago
        The point isn’t whether Amazon should or shouldn’t be paying a Federal taxes, it’s whether—given this prior behavior—we would expect them to pay state or city taxes, instead of finding or creating a loophole to get out of them.
        8y ago
Slartie 8y ago
But don't forget that they also need to invest $0 into additional infrastructure necessary to accomodate Amazon and deal with various other problems their presence would have created.
bogomipz 8y ago
And NY can allocate that 505 million dollars they were going to give to Amazon in the form of a capital grant for something that will benefit the public like infrastructure. >"Now the city receives $0." No, now the city receives zero from Amazon. Or another way to look at it is Now Amazon will get zero access to NYC's talent pool. Meanwhile Google is quietly adding 12K new jobs at a new building in Manhattan and doing so without asking for subsidies or incentives. These will be tax revenues that NYC and NY state didn't have to pay to get. NYC will be just fine. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-plans-large-new-york-city-expansion-1541636579 https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-plans-large-new-york-cit...
untog 8y ago
Well, not $0. NYC is a desirable place for many companies, and others will move in to the place Amazon intended to occupy. It might take longer and the companies may be smaller, but it's not like there is now a giant black hole in Queens that can never be filled.
- joyeuse6701 8y ago
  I think many businesses will think twice about attempting a move to this particular part of NYC, who knows if your company falls into the 'acceptable' category of the government and it's representatives new ideology?
  - untog 8y ago
    I don't think they will. Unless you are a company the size of Amazon (and literally only a couple are) you are not going to have the same problems.

mc32 8y ago

The fallout will be interesting to see: NY State govt is your regular Blue Democrat government, some of NYC, parts which were against this HQ2 deal, are very progressive. The progressives undermined the traditional Democrats. I bet we get to see echoes of this skirmish during the next cycle.

JetSpiegel 8y ago
I think it's the opposite, this is an echo of the latest election cycle. Since Hillary was humilliated by Trump the centrist Democrats are losing most political battles, gradually.
- mc32 8y ago
  Hillary didn’t lose because she was a centrist (Would Biden have lost?). She lost because she’s a bad candidate. She lost to Obama. She is a war hawk. Also lacked Bill's charisma. People in the middle want the government to give them a fair shake, they don’t want handouts. They’re tired of being sold out by government and industry to overseas cheap labor.