5 ms·

The pricing model is the main reason newer people are not getting into Delphi. This is why they tried to lure people with iOS and Android capabilities. But wh

by Svip 8y ago

The pricing model is the main reason newer people are not getting into Delphi. This is why they tried to lure people with iOS and Android capabilities. But when there are alternatives that are free, why bother? Yes, Delphi has a Community Edition now (which is free), but the fact that are excluded from a large portion of the library, because you cannot afford it, is always going to alienate some people. And it is always going to feel frustrating, when other languages don't have those limitations. My office only uses the Professional Edition, because we cannot really afford the Enterprise Edition, which means there were some problems we ended up 'inventing ourselves', because they were only available in the Enterprise Edition. Delphi probably won't survive another decade (in my estimation), but Pascal will live on as FreePascal/Lazarus.

marcocantu 8y ago
"Delphi has a Community Edition now (which is free), but the fact that are excluded from a large portion of the library" That's not really the case. With Delphi Community edition you get support for 4 operating systems, VCL and FireMonkey, it only lacks access to Enterprise databases like Oracle and some of the multi-tier architectures. Community has a large percentage (80%+) of the features...
- Svip 8y ago
  You are correct, saying 'large portion of the library' was a mistake. But as I remember, you don't have access to the VCL source code with the Community Edition. The feature matrix says that this is 'limited in Community', whatever that means. We wanted to do MongoDB connections, which comes with FireDAC. But that's only available in the Enterprise Edition. So we ended up rewriting TMongoWire[0] to fit our needs. I am sure you can do most things in Delphi in the Community edition, but it's a little too late, unfortunately. [0] https://github.com/stijnsanders/TMongoWire https://github.com/stijnsanders/TMongoWire
  - marcocantu 8y ago
    You are right about MongoDB... as for "VCL source code" it is available, but with licensing limitations
  - wila 8y ago
    Oh FireDAC is no longer available for Professional version either? Geez.. really not going to lay down $3k for an EE. How is that "professional" if you cannot even read/write to sqlite.
    - fmxexpress 8y ago
      This is incorrect. I have Pro. I use FireDAC. SQLite can be used with Pro.
    - wila 8y ago
      @fmxexpress thanks for the info. That's exactly what I am doing now, but I am not on the latest version.
    - TheJimMcKeeth 8y ago
      Both Professional and Community Edition include FireDAC. https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/product-editions https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/product-editions "Build database apps with local/embedded connectivity" is in every edition. The only difference is you need Enterprise or Architect to connect to "Enterprise class" databases like a remote Oracle server.
      - wila 8y ago
        Ah ok, it doesn't mention FireDAC, fair enough. At least you can save data in a database. Thanks for the correction.
      - nenadst 8y ago
        unfortunately "Enterprise DBs" means also Postgresql, Mysql, SQL Server etc. (anything Client/Server) you can probably just use another Framework like (free) ZeosDB (http://zeoslib.sourceforge.net/ http://zeoslib.sourceforge.net/) or some paid ones e.g. from Devart (https://www.devart.com/dac.html https://www.devart.com/dac.html) but still, its frustrating to have to use something else for such basic functionality ...
- pkphilip 8y ago
  As a person who has used Delphi since around 1997 and Turbo Pascal I find it frustrating and extremely disappointing that people like Marco Cantu who are leading figures in the Delphi community do not do enough to criticize the absolutely crazy Delphi pricing and products such as this ludicrous "community" edition with the $5K/year limitation. Why would any company want to start developing in Delphi if the pricing/developer is suddenly going to jump to a ridiculously high number the moment they touch $5K/year limit? But even the $5k/year limitation came in far too late. I am very sad to see the way the Delphi community is languishing and slowly dying out.
wila 8y ago
Yes, thank goodness for FreePascal/Lazarus. Also have the Professional Edition and would update if only they took the macOS platform seriously. Again with this update, like the previous few, there are zero improvements for macOS. Really regret to ever have invested any time (and money as I bought several updates) into their FireMonkey platform. It looks bad on macOS for not using native controls and it looks bad on Windows because the fonts are blurry. With macOS only being 64 bits around the corner and openGL being declared end of life, one would expect to see some movement or improvements. Nope.
- fmxexpress 8y ago
  They have macOS64 on their roadmap. I agree though that they should keep up with the macOS support better than they do. Even if it is probably the smallest platform by marketshare they support.
- wila 8y ago
  @fmxexpress you are showing up marked dead here. Yes, they have it on their roadmap for 2 years now. Doesn't offer a lot of confidence in that it will actually show up on time. Right now you cannot release a 32 bits app anymore in the apple app store. So I'd argue that they are very late already. Who is going to invest time into a product you cannot release, but that -pinky promise- will be delivered before you can not even run existing 32 bits apps anymore.
giancarlostoro 8y ago
Their community edition is kind of a joke when compared to Microsoft's VS Community Edition which basically brings everything.
- fmxexpress 8y ago
  Does VS Community Edition let a developer compile to Android/iOS/macOS32/Windows with a single codebase and single UI? I've used Xamarin and it doesn't really seem to do that.
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    Depends on what you use. You could use Cordova instead, but I'm not primarily a mobile developer. I'm mostly web / back-end.

by Svip 8y ago

marcocantu 8y ago

"Delphi has a Community Edition now (which is free), but the fact that are excluded from a large portion of the library" That's not really the case. With Delphi Community edition you get support for 4 operating systems, VCL and FireMonkey, it only lacks access to Enterprise databases like Oracle and some of the multi-tier architectures. Community has a large percentage (80%+) of the features...

Svip 8y ago
You are correct, saying 'large portion of the library' was a mistake. But as I remember, you don't have access to the VCL source code with the Community Edition. The feature matrix says that this is 'limited in Community', whatever that means. We wanted to do MongoDB connections, which comes with FireDAC. But that's only available in the Enterprise Edition. So we ended up rewriting TMongoWire[0] to fit our needs. I am sure you can do most things in Delphi in the Community edition, but it's a little too late, unfortunately. [0] https://github.com/stijnsanders/TMongoWire https://github.com/stijnsanders/TMongoWire
- marcocantu 8y ago
  You are right about MongoDB... as for "VCL source code" it is available, but with licensing limitations
- wila 8y ago
  Oh FireDAC is no longer available for Professional version either? Geez.. really not going to lay down $3k for an EE. How is that "professional" if you cannot even read/write to sqlite.
  - fmxexpress 8y ago
    This is incorrect. I have Pro. I use FireDAC. SQLite can be used with Pro.
  - wila 8y ago
    @fmxexpress thanks for the info. That's exactly what I am doing now, but I am not on the latest version.
  - TheJimMcKeeth 8y ago
    Both Professional and Community Edition include FireDAC. https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/product-editions https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/product-editions "Build database apps with local/embedded connectivity" is in every edition. The only difference is you need Enterprise or Architect to connect to "Enterprise class" databases like a remote Oracle server.
    - wila 8y ago
      Ah ok, it doesn't mention FireDAC, fair enough. At least you can save data in a database. Thanks for the correction.
    - nenadst 8y ago
      unfortunately "Enterprise DBs" means also Postgresql, Mysql, SQL Server etc. (anything Client/Server) you can probably just use another Framework like (free) ZeosDB (http://zeoslib.sourceforge.net/ http://zeoslib.sourceforge.net/) or some paid ones e.g. from Devart (https://www.devart.com/dac.html https://www.devart.com/dac.html) but still, its frustrating to have to use something else for such basic functionality ...
pkphilip 8y ago
As a person who has used Delphi since around 1997 and Turbo Pascal I find it frustrating and extremely disappointing that people like Marco Cantu who are leading figures in the Delphi community do not do enough to criticize the absolutely crazy Delphi pricing and products such as this ludicrous "community" edition with the $5K/year limitation. Why would any company want to start developing in Delphi if the pricing/developer is suddenly going to jump to a ridiculously high number the moment they touch $5K/year limit? But even the $5k/year limitation came in far too late. I am very sad to see the way the Delphi community is languishing and slowly dying out.

wila 8y ago

Yes, thank goodness for FreePascal/Lazarus. Also have the Professional Edition and would update if only they took the macOS platform seriously. Again with this update, like the previous few, there are zero improvements for macOS. Really regret to ever have invested any time (and money as I bought several updates) into their FireMonkey platform. It looks bad on macOS for not using native controls and it looks bad on Windows because the fonts are blurry. With macOS only being 64 bits around the corner and openGL being declared end of life, one would expect to see some movement or improvements. Nope.

fmxexpress 8y ago
They have macOS64 on their roadmap. I agree though that they should keep up with the macOS support better than they do. Even if it is probably the smallest platform by marketshare they support.
wila 8y ago
@fmxexpress you are showing up marked dead here. Yes, they have it on their roadmap for 2 years now. Doesn't offer a lot of confidence in that it will actually show up on time. Right now you cannot release a 32 bits app anymore in the apple app store. So I'd argue that they are very late already. Who is going to invest time into a product you cannot release, but that -pinky promise- will be delivered before you can not even run existing 32 bits apps anymore.

giancarlostoro 8y ago

Their community edition is kind of a joke when compared to Microsoft's VS Community Edition which basically brings everything.

fmxexpress 8y ago
Does VS Community Edition let a developer compile to Android/iOS/macOS32/Windows with a single codebase and single UI? I've used Xamarin and it doesn't really seem to do that.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  Depends on what you use. You could use Cordova instead, but I'm not primarily a mobile developer. I'm mostly web / back-end.