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Grid operators the world over are screaming about it, but so far things have gone pretty well. Germany has had some hiccups, but they were extremely aggressive

Grid operators the world over are screaming about it, but so far things have gone pretty well. Germany has had some hiccups, but they were extremely aggressive in bringing renewables online and moving away from nuclear. And these problems were mostly a matter of strange wholesale prices rather than outages. The gird and grid management certainly needs to be changed to accommodate renewables, but utilities all over the world are already making these changes, both to the infrastructure and to the way they balance the grid. It's a fascinating time to be in the industry.

rurounijones 8y ago
Thank you for the information but, as a realtive laymen, the whole "It seems to be going pretty well" doesn't seem to jibe with the fact that we seem to be failing miserably to meet Paris accords with even Germany pulling out of the commiment. If things are going pretty well and renewables are "What's not to love?" (to shamelessly steal your quote) then what on earth is going on.
- timoth3y 8y ago
  I was commenting on the effect the renewables would have on running the grid itself. In general, the grid seems to be able to handle to increases in renewables we've seen so far and those we see coming. The pace at which we are deploying renewable generation is another matter entirely.
  - southern_cross 8y ago
    (I'm working from memory here, so take this with a grain of salt.) IIRC, the latest info is that the existing grid can handle something like 15% renewable energy before things start falling over in a big way. This is a bit higher than the 10% to 12% which was originally forecast, but considerably lower than the 30% which some optimists were claiming.
    - olau 8y ago
      They used to say the same thing in Denmark. Yet, wind penetration is now a bit below 50%, and the grid is stable, see for instance page 14 here https://ens.dk/sites/ens.dk/files/Globalcooperation/security_of_electricity_supply_in_denmark.pdf https://ens.dk/sites/ens.dk/files/Globalcooperation/security... "Figure 5 illustrates that there have been no major blackouts in Denmark in the past ten years" Of course it requires adjustments, and the adjustments made in Denmark are specific to the local circumstances, just as they'll have to be everywhere else in the world.
      - southern_cross 8y ago
        I'd probably have to read the entire report to know for sure (too lazy), but I'm guessing that they currently only have such stability because of their interlinks with other electricity markets; see Figure 1 on page 11. And if those other markets start transitioning to renewables in a big way then "problem" for Denmark. BTW, as I understand it the best-sited windmills only provide maybe 25% of their "nameplate" capacity on average, and even that number is probably too optimistic overall. Plus, windmills in general are only lasting maybe half of their originally expected lifetimes - 10 years instead of 20, or what have you. These and plenty of other factors just seem to be being ignored when people call them "very low cost producers".

rurounijones 8y ago

Thank you for the information but, as a realtive laymen, the whole "It seems to be going pretty well" doesn't seem to jibe with the fact that we seem to be failing miserably to meet Paris accords with even Germany pulling out of the commiment. If things are going pretty well and renewables are "What's not to love?" (to shamelessly steal your quote) then what on earth is going on.

timoth3y 8y ago
I was commenting on the effect the renewables would have on running the grid itself. In general, the grid seems to be able to handle to increases in renewables we've seen so far and those we see coming. The pace at which we are deploying renewable generation is another matter entirely.
- southern_cross 8y ago
  (I'm working from memory here, so take this with a grain of salt.) IIRC, the latest info is that the existing grid can handle something like 15% renewable energy before things start falling over in a big way. This is a bit higher than the 10% to 12% which was originally forecast, but considerably lower than the 30% which some optimists were claiming.
  - olau 8y ago
    They used to say the same thing in Denmark. Yet, wind penetration is now a bit below 50%, and the grid is stable, see for instance page 14 here https://ens.dk/sites/ens.dk/files/Globalcooperation/security_of_electricity_supply_in_denmark.pdf https://ens.dk/sites/ens.dk/files/Globalcooperation/security... "Figure 5 illustrates that there have been no major blackouts in Denmark in the past ten years" Of course it requires adjustments, and the adjustments made in Denmark are specific to the local circumstances, just as they'll have to be everywhere else in the world.
    - southern_cross 8y ago
      I'd probably have to read the entire report to know for sure (too lazy), but I'm guessing that they currently only have such stability because of their interlinks with other electricity markets; see Figure 1 on page 11. And if those other markets start transitioning to renewables in a big way then "problem" for Denmark. BTW, as I understand it the best-sited windmills only provide maybe 25% of their "nameplate" capacity on average, and even that number is probably too optimistic overall. Plus, windmills in general are only lasting maybe half of their originally expected lifetimes - 10 years instead of 20, or what have you. These and plenty of other factors just seem to be being ignored when people call them "very low cost producers".