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I don't agree with this article. The article presents the very narrow perspective of an apparently uninformed person who thinks that invoking the names MLK or J

I don't agree with this article. The article presents the very narrow perspective of an apparently uninformed person who thinks that invoking the names MLK or James Baldwin will help their case. People like the author of this article avoid, in their reasoning, any conception of income disparity, an intrinsically racially prejudice curriculum, micro-aggressive and biased media (to which students are constantly exposed), and any such thing that would lead to a rational that an unfair system is producing students who are going to be unresponsive to a traditional school system that is based on a presumption of equality and social equity. What is more is this uninformed person, doesn't seem to know why it is not OK for a "white person" to use certain words. Showing that she has no understanding of recent history and how words take on a different meaning depending on who is saying them. This isn't a new concept; natural languages(unlike say many computing languages) are VERY context sensitive and have always been so. This article reveals that it is, in fact, too the teacher who is lacking education. Here I yield to works like that from Robin DiAngelo and Ken Wytsma.

minitel 8y ago
It sounds like you're a very worldly and pragmatic person. Perhaps you should go and teach in one of these schools. You might just turn things around! :)
smsm42 8y ago
> of an apparently uninformed person What do you mean by "uninformed"? From the article it is apparent the author actually worked in the school as a teacher for years, and she writes about the experience. I am sure people may disagree with the conclusions, but calling her "uninformed" just sounds out of place to me - if the person literally doing the thing for years is not informed, what does that even mean? > system is producing students who are going to be unresponsive to a traditional school system What you mean by "traditional"? I've been in school outside the US, and what she describes looks nothing like any school I've ever been in. I have also read there have been lots of reforms and various approaches tried, with various degree of success, in various US schools. In what sense is the experience she describes "traditional" and what non-"traditional" approach would you advocate?
- externalreality 8y ago
  That you for "respectfully" disagreeing. > What do you mean by "uninformed"? I mean that the author doesn't seem to be very informed with respect to race relations or social equity issues. > What you mean by "traditional"? I mean a school system that fails to take into account or fully address the same issues that I state above. It is hard to tackle these issues because it is still too hard to have a reasoned conversation on race and the great injustices of the past (both very intentional and unintentional) that have lead students to the despair they find themselves in today. The author of this article is part of the problem IMHO.
  - smsm42 8y ago
    > I mean that the author doesn't seem to be very informed with respect to race relations or social equity issues. "Race relations" is kinda wide topic, encompassing more or less the whole human history. It would be more useful if you point out which relevant aspects of this huge topic, in your opinion, the author got wrong and how, in your opinion, it influenced her discussion about education. I understand this could potentially also be huge, but at least 2-3 of major examples would be very helpful. > I mean a school system that fails to take into account or fully address the same issues that I state above. Yes, but address how? Any school system could fail to fully address one or the other aspects of the full history of race relations and social issues. It is impossible not to - it's the whole human history in all its vast diversity, and nobody would ever be able to account or fully address all aspects of it. Pointing out which aspects and how are not addressed would be much more interesting than just saying "oh, race relations, therefore whole article is invalid". I don't see how it adds anything, it just sounds dismissive of an experience of the real person and painstaking work she made of recording it and sharing it with us. What do you thing she have done wrong, specifically? > It is hard to tackle these issues because it is still too hard to have a reasoned conversation on race True, it is not easy. But I think that's not the reason to not try? > The author of this article is part of the problem IMHO. I do not see how. She honestly tried to help those students who want to learn and advance, despite harsh conditions that surround them, and she found her efforts consistently being contradicted and nullified by the system, which does not help people who want to learn, and allows people who behave destructively to continue their behavior not only to their own detriment, but to the detriment of others. She spent a lot of time and effort trying to teach people despite these circumstances and despite constant assault on her human dignity. If that counts as being part of the problem, what isn't?
amvalo 8y ago
Honestly, it seems like you didn't read the OP very closely as there are several points where she seems to agree with you.
- externalreality 8y ago
  Um, no.
Nrsolis 8y ago
I’m sorry but your comment reeks of SJW orthodoxy. What I read was a teacher describing her own experience working to try and fix a problem and discovering that nobody else involved has any interest in seeing that problem solved. Here is my take: none of the historic examples of wrongdoing by this group or that have anything to do with getting educated or embracing a mindset of achievement as opposed to one that will keep them in a state of economic dependency forever. Ask yourself: what kind of person is more useful to a politician trying to stay in power than one who will always need that politician to secure financial benefits for them? Someone who is capable of standing on their own two feet or someone who believes that the deck is stacked against them? I know who I believe in this story.
- externalreality 8y ago
  boo

minitel 8y ago

It sounds like you're a very worldly and pragmatic person. Perhaps you should go and teach in one of these schools. You might just turn things around! :)

smsm42 8y ago

> of an apparently uninformed person What do you mean by "uninformed"? From the article it is apparent the author actually worked in the school as a teacher for years, and she writes about the experience. I am sure people may disagree with the conclusions, but calling her "uninformed" just sounds out of place to me - if the person literally doing the thing for years is not informed, what does that even mean? > system is producing students who are going to be unresponsive to a traditional school system What you mean by "traditional"? I've been in school outside the US, and what she describes looks nothing like any school I've ever been in. I have also read there have been lots of reforms and various approaches tried, with various degree of success, in various US schools. In what sense is the experience she describes "traditional" and what non-"traditional" approach would you advocate?

externalreality 8y ago
That you for "respectfully" disagreeing. > What do you mean by "uninformed"? I mean that the author doesn't seem to be very informed with respect to race relations or social equity issues. > What you mean by "traditional"? I mean a school system that fails to take into account or fully address the same issues that I state above. It is hard to tackle these issues because it is still too hard to have a reasoned conversation on race and the great injustices of the past (both very intentional and unintentional) that have lead students to the despair they find themselves in today. The author of this article is part of the problem IMHO.
- smsm42 8y ago
  > I mean that the author doesn't seem to be very informed with respect to race relations or social equity issues. "Race relations" is kinda wide topic, encompassing more or less the whole human history. It would be more useful if you point out which relevant aspects of this huge topic, in your opinion, the author got wrong and how, in your opinion, it influenced her discussion about education. I understand this could potentially also be huge, but at least 2-3 of major examples would be very helpful. > I mean a school system that fails to take into account or fully address the same issues that I state above. Yes, but address how? Any school system could fail to fully address one or the other aspects of the full history of race relations and social issues. It is impossible not to - it's the whole human history in all its vast diversity, and nobody would ever be able to account or fully address all aspects of it. Pointing out which aspects and how are not addressed would be much more interesting than just saying "oh, race relations, therefore whole article is invalid". I don't see how it adds anything, it just sounds dismissive of an experience of the real person and painstaking work she made of recording it and sharing it with us. What do you thing she have done wrong, specifically? > It is hard to tackle these issues because it is still too hard to have a reasoned conversation on race True, it is not easy. But I think that's not the reason to not try? > The author of this article is part of the problem IMHO. I do not see how. She honestly tried to help those students who want to learn and advance, despite harsh conditions that surround them, and she found her efforts consistently being contradicted and nullified by the system, which does not help people who want to learn, and allows people who behave destructively to continue their behavior not only to their own detriment, but to the detriment of others. She spent a lot of time and effort trying to teach people despite these circumstances and despite constant assault on her human dignity. If that counts as being part of the problem, what isn't?

amvalo 8y ago

Honestly, it seems like you didn't read the OP very closely as there are several points where she seems to agree with you.

externalreality 8y ago
Um, no.

Nrsolis 8y ago

I’m sorry but your comment reeks of SJW orthodoxy. What I read was a teacher describing her own experience working to try and fix a problem and discovering that nobody else involved has any interest in seeing that problem solved. Here is my take: none of the historic examples of wrongdoing by this group or that have anything to do with getting educated or embracing a mindset of achievement as opposed to one that will keep them in a state of economic dependency forever. Ask yourself: what kind of person is more useful to a politician trying to stay in power than one who will always need that politician to secure financial benefits for them? Someone who is capable of standing on their own two feet or someone who believes that the deck is stacked against them? I know who I believe in this story.

externalreality 8y ago
boo