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Yet when I visit the unix sysadmins' office I see people chaining commands to administer hundreds of boxes. On the windows side I rarely see powershell prompt

Yet when I visit the unix sysadmins' office I see people chaining commands to administer hundreds of boxes. On the windows side I rarely see powershell prompts. Powershell looks so much better in theory. However it's just an okayish scripting language with a good REPL. Unix tools are a far better daily driver.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
That's probably because for daily tasks we have much better tooling in Windows already that doesn't require us to use the command line and interactive construct it. I can easily administer the configurations of thousands of computers through AD, for instance, and while I could use PowerShell to do so, using ADUC is just easier most of the time. If you do a lot of work with Exchange though, you'll probably end up using PowerShell much more, because the web UI for it is not so great. No matter what you think of the specific implementation, a lot of PowerShell's ideas are good ideas. Unfortunately UNIX culture is such that they'll probably never implement any of them.
- grumpydba 8y ago
  > That's probably because for daily tasks we have much better tooling in Windows ssh, docker, ansible, kubernetes, grafana, prometheus, etc... All coming from Linux/unix. This statement is clueless. Most of the cloud is not running microsoft, and for a good reason. To automate, we have python, which has a much better syntax. It's pointless to use powershell. And it takes a microsoft head, without knowledge of programming language's history to say that powershell's ideas actually come from powershell. Method chaining/fluent interface with a pipe instead of a dot does not look that new. Also, some attempts have been to implement posh clones on unix. Being redundant with either perl/python or bash/zsh, none succeeded.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > sh, docker, ansible, kubernetes, grafana, prometheus, etc... All coming from Linux/unix. This statement is clueless. Most of the cloud is not running microsoft, and for a good reason. And most non-cloud, non-sv, real businesses that do actual work are still running AD, Office, and Windows. And for good reason. > To automate, we have python, which has a much better syntax. Subjective. > And it takes a microsoft head, without knowledge of programming language's history to say that powershell's ideas actually come from powershell. I don't believe I said that. I get it, you're a UNIX fanboy and you're butt-hurt that some idiot on the internet has a dissenting opinion that offends your religious affiliation with an operating system, but I'm not a Microsfot fanboy, especially these days with their user hostility and embracing the worst parts of open source and UNIX culture. > Also, some attempts have been to implement posh clones on unix. Being redundant with either perl/python or bash/zsh, none succeeded. Yeah, but we're talking about a culture that still uses X11, they aren't good at change. Also, I've seen the various attempts to shoe-horn a newer paradigm into the old one and I'm not impressed either. This isn't something you can hack together, you'll have to rebuild a lot of the tooling and UNIX people just aren't interested. Meanwhile Microsoft got it done, and then ported it to Linux.
    - grumpydba 8y ago
      > Yeah, but we're talking about a culture that still uses X11 Coming from somebody using ntfs. A rewrite to wayland is in progress though. It's an unfunded part of linux, that's true. But major changes have been made (systemd) so it's all about the money. > I get it, you're a UNIX fanboy and you're butt-hurt that some idiot on the internet has a dissenting opinion that offends your religious affiliation with an operating system, but I'm not a Microsfot fanboy, especially these days with their user hostility and embracing the worst parts of open source and UNIX culture. Sounds like you are butthurt since microsoft is embracing the unix philosophy you despise. The market and the headquarters of your company have spoken against your technical preferences and skills, and now you will have to change and learn the unix way. It makes some people salty. Swallow your pride and learn.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

That's probably because for daily tasks we have much better tooling in Windows already that doesn't require us to use the command line and interactive construct it. I can easily administer the configurations of thousands of computers through AD, for instance, and while I could use PowerShell to do so, using ADUC is just easier most of the time. If you do a lot of work with Exchange though, you'll probably end up using PowerShell much more, because the web UI for it is not so great. No matter what you think of the specific implementation, a lot of PowerShell's ideas are good ideas. Unfortunately UNIX culture is such that they'll probably never implement any of them.

grumpydba 8y ago
> That's probably because for daily tasks we have much better tooling in Windows ssh, docker, ansible, kubernetes, grafana, prometheus, etc... All coming from Linux/unix. This statement is clueless. Most of the cloud is not running microsoft, and for a good reason. To automate, we have python, which has a much better syntax. It's pointless to use powershell. And it takes a microsoft head, without knowledge of programming language's history to say that powershell's ideas actually come from powershell. Method chaining/fluent interface with a pipe instead of a dot does not look that new. Also, some attempts have been to implement posh clones on unix. Being redundant with either perl/python or bash/zsh, none succeeded.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  > sh, docker, ansible, kubernetes, grafana, prometheus, etc... All coming from Linux/unix. This statement is clueless. Most of the cloud is not running microsoft, and for a good reason. And most non-cloud, non-sv, real businesses that do actual work are still running AD, Office, and Windows. And for good reason. > To automate, we have python, which has a much better syntax. Subjective. > And it takes a microsoft head, without knowledge of programming language's history to say that powershell's ideas actually come from powershell. I don't believe I said that. I get it, you're a UNIX fanboy and you're butt-hurt that some idiot on the internet has a dissenting opinion that offends your religious affiliation with an operating system, but I'm not a Microsfot fanboy, especially these days with their user hostility and embracing the worst parts of open source and UNIX culture. > Also, some attempts have been to implement posh clones on unix. Being redundant with either perl/python or bash/zsh, none succeeded. Yeah, but we're talking about a culture that still uses X11, they aren't good at change. Also, I've seen the various attempts to shoe-horn a newer paradigm into the old one and I'm not impressed either. This isn't something you can hack together, you'll have to rebuild a lot of the tooling and UNIX people just aren't interested. Meanwhile Microsoft got it done, and then ported it to Linux.
  - grumpydba 8y ago
    > Yeah, but we're talking about a culture that still uses X11 Coming from somebody using ntfs. A rewrite to wayland is in progress though. It's an unfunded part of linux, that's true. But major changes have been made (systemd) so it's all about the money. > I get it, you're a UNIX fanboy and you're butt-hurt that some idiot on the internet has a dissenting opinion that offends your religious affiliation with an operating system, but I'm not a Microsfot fanboy, especially these days with their user hostility and embracing the worst parts of open source and UNIX culture. Sounds like you are butthurt since microsoft is embracing the unix philosophy you despise. The market and the headquarters of your company have spoken against your technical preferences and skills, and now you will have to change and learn the unix way. It makes some people salty. Swallow your pride and learn.