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You don't have a choice about Facebook. They are collecting data about you right now and affecting the society you live in. At least the government is accountab

You don't have a choice about Facebook. They are collecting data about you right now and affecting the society you live in. At least the government is accountable through elections.

dvtrn 8y ago
At least the government is accountable through elections. Yes, "accountable". Quotes here because voter suppression, disenfrachisment and aggressive gerrymandering are all things that really make me wonder about the substance of accountability ala plebiscite. And no, I am not throwing out any babies or bathwater here.
JoshTriplett 8y ago
> They are collecting data about you right now Browsers can block that quite easily. > and affecting the society you live in And people are becoming more aware of how that happens, and developing tools to control and expose that, and at the end of the day people can choose to use it or not. > At least the government is accountable through elections. Not particularly, no. I feel far, far more enfranchised in my ability to choose what voluntary associations I form. I know I'm not the only one.
- whatislovecraft 8y ago
  > Browsers can block that quite easily. How? That's not possible. Facebook knows where you are and what you're doing, etc, without you even having a computer or smartphone at all. Your friends or their friends will already upload your address, phone number, contact info, etc. When you go out in public and you get caught in the background of someone else's photo, that you might not even know is being taken? They might post that to FB or Instagram, and then boom, FB gets another data point to analyze and find out where you go and what your habits are. "Browsers" can't block what Facebook does to track users, not even close. That would be a trillion-dollar-invention. > And people are becoming more aware of how that happens, Are they? I don't think they are. I think people are grossly misinformed about how the data is collected. > and developing tools to control and expose that Who is? I know of no serious efforts to meaningfully reduce the data FB is able to collect. > and at the end of the day people can choose to use it or not. No they cannot. None of these services or companies are opt-in. You have profiles with them long before you sign up. You are being manipulated and studied and watched and you have no choice about it.
ryandrake 8y ago
At least we can, (in theory) vote out our government. If I am not a shareholder, there is nothing I can do to stop a big company’s bad behavior, and if I am a shareholder, then my interests align with the big company’s bad behavior. Perhaps over a certain size, companies should be somehow required to provide the public some amount of voting power on their board, absent a financial interest in the company’s results.
- JoshTriplett 8y ago
  > If I am not a shareholder, there is nothing I can do to stop a big company’s bad behavior Choose not to do business with them. Advocate that others not do business with them. Encourage employees to leave or change things. Work with companies you can influence to avoid doing business with them. Create competition, whether as a business or as a new technology that obsoletes theirs. There are many, many things you can do that have far more likelihood of enacting meaningful change, and that have nothing to do with being a shareholder. The likelihood of success in such methods depends heavily on the ability to get others to agree with you and take action.
  - whatislovecraft 8y ago
    > Choose not to do business with them This has no effect whatsoever. You can try but it won't matter. You make money for Facebook and Google even if you spend every waking hour trying not to do so. Your very existence - that you have opinions, ideas, that you go places, spend money, etc- is sufficient for these businesses to choose to do "business" with you without your knowledge. They'll take things you thought were yours and then use that to sell ads to other companies. > Advocate that others not do business with them. Again, this won't matter one bit. This kind of change takes decades to propagate throughout society, way slower than is necessary to avoid damage done. > ... > The likelihood of success in such methods depends heavily on the ability to get others to agree with you and take action. So none of your ideas will work. The 'markets' are broken when looking at long-term financial gain through sustainable growth and consumer choice. Do not look to broken-since-inception-on-purpose "models" to dictate how you think a modern economy should function.

You don't have a choice about Facebook. They are collecting data about you right now and affecting the society you live in. At least the government is accountable through elections.

dvtrn 8y ago

At least the government is accountable through elections. Yes, "accountable". Quotes here because voter suppression, disenfrachisment and aggressive gerrymandering are all things that really make me wonder about the substance of accountability ala plebiscite. And no, I am not throwing out any babies or bathwater here.

JoshTriplett 8y ago

> They are collecting data about you right now Browsers can block that quite easily. > and affecting the society you live in And people are becoming more aware of how that happens, and developing tools to control and expose that, and at the end of the day people can choose to use it or not. > At least the government is accountable through elections. Not particularly, no. I feel far, far more enfranchised in my ability to choose what voluntary associations I form. I know I'm not the only one.

whatislovecraft 8y ago
> Browsers can block that quite easily. How? That's not possible. Facebook knows where you are and what you're doing, etc, without you even having a computer or smartphone at all. Your friends or their friends will already upload your address, phone number, contact info, etc. When you go out in public and you get caught in the background of someone else's photo, that you might not even know is being taken? They might post that to FB or Instagram, and then boom, FB gets another data point to analyze and find out where you go and what your habits are. "Browsers" can't block what Facebook does to track users, not even close. That would be a trillion-dollar-invention. > And people are becoming more aware of how that happens, Are they? I don't think they are. I think people are grossly misinformed about how the data is collected. > and developing tools to control and expose that Who is? I know of no serious efforts to meaningfully reduce the data FB is able to collect. > and at the end of the day people can choose to use it or not. No they cannot. None of these services or companies are opt-in. You have profiles with them long before you sign up. You are being manipulated and studied and watched and you have no choice about it.

ryandrake 8y ago

At least we can, (in theory) vote out our government. If I am not a shareholder, there is nothing I can do to stop a big company’s bad behavior, and if I am a shareholder, then my interests align with the big company’s bad behavior. Perhaps over a certain size, companies should be somehow required to provide the public some amount of voting power on their board, absent a financial interest in the company’s results.

JoshTriplett 8y ago
> If I am not a shareholder, there is nothing I can do to stop a big company’s bad behavior Choose not to do business with them. Advocate that others not do business with them. Encourage employees to leave or change things. Work with companies you can influence to avoid doing business with them. Create competition, whether as a business or as a new technology that obsoletes theirs. There are many, many things you can do that have far more likelihood of enacting meaningful change, and that have nothing to do with being a shareholder. The likelihood of success in such methods depends heavily on the ability to get others to agree with you and take action.
- whatislovecraft 8y ago
  > Choose not to do business with them This has no effect whatsoever. You can try but it won't matter. You make money for Facebook and Google even if you spend every waking hour trying not to do so. Your very existence - that you have opinions, ideas, that you go places, spend money, etc- is sufficient for these businesses to choose to do "business" with you without your knowledge. They'll take things you thought were yours and then use that to sell ads to other companies. > Advocate that others not do business with them. Again, this won't matter one bit. This kind of change takes decades to propagate throughout society, way slower than is necessary to avoid damage done. > ... > The likelihood of success in such methods depends heavily on the ability to get others to agree with you and take action. So none of your ideas will work. The 'markets' are broken when looking at long-term financial gain through sustainable growth and consumer choice. Do not look to broken-since-inception-on-purpose "models" to dictate how you think a modern economy should function.