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Four hours? Your bladder must be made out of steel. What value to you get in return for this significant investment of time? I've been curious about meditation

Four hours? Your bladder must be made out of steel. What value to you get in return for this significant investment of time? I've been curious about meditation for a while, but never really understood the benefits. Every time I've tried it, I've walked away cranky and uncomfortable.

michael_dorfman 16y ago
Where have you tried it? If you're really curious, I'd recommend a weekend retreat as a good way to give you a taste of what the benefits are. Practicing on your own is fine, once you know what you're doing, but until you do, it's much easier to get instruction in person and practice with a group.
- brianwillis 16y ago
  I've tried it at home, on my own. You're right about the value of getting instruction in person. I'll look into it.
crazydiamond 16y ago
You don't necessarily have to do a sitting meditation. A walking meditation is good enough. Find a quiet park with lots of trees/greenery. Walk slowly, put attention on soles of feet, or breathing, or path in front. Anything but mind/thoughts. As thoughts come, bring attention back to breath/feet. Sooner or later (maybe days/weeks/months) you will clearly notice the presence, that which is (always) here. There will be some recognitions that only you can make. Some call it the "I am". No, it is hard for the mind to understand, since the mind is quiet at this point. The mind itself is the disturbance that prevents us from knowing what is there when it is no longer "veiling" what is. This is also called being in the present moment, being in the Now, abiding as the I-am, abiding as awareness etc. My first recognition was of what was real and what was not. Only you can make that recognition, it cannot be told and proved by someone else. The second recognition was of myself being the silent awareness inside which the mind and the "I" was playing. The whole play of the personality or "personal self" is seen through. The suffering of this mental being crumbles. Can you imagine the freedom ? No wealth or power can buy this.
locopati 16y ago
Like any other practice (programming, music, art) it can be difficult at first and the benefits take time to accrue. I struggled to sit comfortably for a long time before I reached the point where I can sit easily for an hour - though it still takes a little time getting up :) As far as bladders, in the Zen tradition, half-day or full-day sits are short sessions of sitting (maybe 35 minutes) alternated with walking meditation (maybe 5 or 10 minutes). During the walking meditation, you have an opportunity to step out if you need the toilet. Also, there can be a meal and rest period thrown in so that it's not actually 4 or 8 hours of just sitting.
darshan 16y ago
If meditation is making you cranky and uncomfortable, I'd say you haven't yet found the right form of meditation for you. There are a huge number of different practices out there, and most of them strike me as self-violent and painful. Of course, they probably work well for some people; to each her own. Personally, I've always been drawn to practices that emphasize simplicity, ease, gentleness, and acceptance in the cultivation of awareness. If I need to pee, I get up and pee; if I need to adjust my position, I adjust my position. I don't force my mind, I do the opposite: I let go of my mind and instead watch it. Thoughts come and thoughts go, and a surprising number of them are pretty funny when I'm not caught up in them. It's truly easy because you can't do it wrong: the goal isn't to have no thoughts, be perfectly present, or have super-concentration. You will have thoughts (lots of them at first), you will have moments when you're present and moments when you're not, you will have pretty crappy concentration at first. Over time, you develop a very easy, effortless form of concentration that doesn't involve forcing anything. Concentration isn't the goal, just a pleasant byproduct. The benefits? I feel much more centered and present, more relaxed, my mind is sharper. My mood tends to be better. To be sure, there are times when I'm cranky when I start and cranky when I finish -- we don't get to use it to force our experience to change. But by practicing being gently present, practicing accepting "this is what my experience is right now," I seem to have more pleasant moods and fewer, briefer unpleasant moods.

michael_dorfman 16y ago

Where have you tried it? If you're really curious, I'd recommend a weekend retreat as a good way to give you a taste of what the benefits are. Practicing on your own is fine, once you know what you're doing, but until you do, it's much easier to get instruction in person and practice with a group.

brianwillis 16y ago
I've tried it at home, on my own. You're right about the value of getting instruction in person. I'll look into it.

crazydiamond 16y ago

You don't necessarily have to do a sitting meditation. A walking meditation is good enough. Find a quiet park with lots of trees/greenery. Walk slowly, put attention on soles of feet, or breathing, or path in front. Anything but mind/thoughts. As thoughts come, bring attention back to breath/feet. Sooner or later (maybe days/weeks/months) you will clearly notice the presence, that which is (always) here. There will be some recognitions that only you can make. Some call it the "I am". No, it is hard for the mind to understand, since the mind is quiet at this point. The mind itself is the disturbance that prevents us from knowing what is there when it is no longer "veiling" what is. This is also called being in the present moment, being in the Now, abiding as the I-am, abiding as awareness etc. My first recognition was of what was real and what was not. Only you can make that recognition, it cannot be told and proved by someone else. The second recognition was of myself being the silent awareness inside which the mind and the "I" was playing. The whole play of the personality or "personal self" is seen through. The suffering of this mental being crumbles. Can you imagine the freedom ? No wealth or power can buy this.

locopati 16y ago

Like any other practice (programming, music, art) it can be difficult at first and the benefits take time to accrue. I struggled to sit comfortably for a long time before I reached the point where I can sit easily for an hour - though it still takes a little time getting up :) As far as bladders, in the Zen tradition, half-day or full-day sits are short sessions of sitting (maybe 35 minutes) alternated with walking meditation (maybe 5 or 10 minutes). During the walking meditation, you have an opportunity to step out if you need the toilet. Also, there can be a meal and rest period thrown in so that it's not actually 4 or 8 hours of just sitting.

darshan 16y ago

If meditation is making you cranky and uncomfortable, I'd say you haven't yet found the right form of meditation for you. There are a huge number of different practices out there, and most of them strike me as self-violent and painful. Of course, they probably work well for some people; to each her own. Personally, I've always been drawn to practices that emphasize simplicity, ease, gentleness, and acceptance in the cultivation of awareness. If I need to pee, I get up and pee; if I need to adjust my position, I adjust my position. I don't force my mind, I do the opposite: I let go of my mind and instead watch it. Thoughts come and thoughts go, and a surprising number of them are pretty funny when I'm not caught up in them. It's truly easy because you can't do it wrong: the goal isn't to have no thoughts, be perfectly present, or have super-concentration. You will have thoughts (lots of them at first), you will have moments when you're present and moments when you're not, you will have pretty crappy concentration at first. Over time, you develop a very easy, effortless form of concentration that doesn't involve forcing anything. Concentration isn't the goal, just a pleasant byproduct. The benefits? I feel much more centered and present, more relaxed, my mind is sharper. My mood tends to be better. To be sure, there are times when I'm cranky when I start and cranky when I finish -- we don't get to use it to force our experience to change. But by practicing being gently present, practicing accepting "this is what my experience is right now," I seem to have more pleasant moods and fewer, briefer unpleasant moods.