4 ms·

Gentrification is the opposite of people moving up the economic ladder - it's the influx of more affluent residents.

nodesocket 8y ago
So you really think Amazon was only going to hire people that already had wealth. It's not possible that somebody making $50k a year, could land a great new position at Amazon making $150k? Cortez is shooting her democrat constituents in the foot, and living up to her affiliation of democratic-socialist.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- marrone12 8y ago
  That's not what happens though. Amazon would be recruiting people from Ivy League schools, big consulting firms, other large tech companies.
  - nodesocket 8y ago
    Disagree, this constant propagation of rigged system or unfair game is not accurate. I know lots of people who came from very little and were able to work themselves up to economic success. In fact many of the people on the Fobes list came from poor upbringing and backgrounds.
    - yourbandsucks 8y ago
      And vastly more of them are not on the Forbes list. People have done studies on income mobility and inter-generational income mobility. The studies say that it's getting worse, not better. Yes, people can move up/down, but most don't, and it's happening less over time.
      - nodesocket 8y ago
        Going from the top, Jeff Bezos himself and Warren Buffet both grew up in middle class environments. Bezos worked at McDonalds as a short order cook while Buffett while young was notoriously hard working and frugal. Buffett would take his paper route earnings (mere dollars) and invest in stocks. Anyway, I don't have the resources and time to go through the entire Forbes list, but I suspect there are a lot more people than most would believe and perhaps like to acknowledge from middle class or "lower" class environments.
        yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Do I really need to explain anecdotes vs data? Income is a strongly inherited trait. Look at this absurdly linear plot in section 2: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2018/01/11/raj-chetty-in-14-charts-big-findings-on-opportunity-and-mobility-we-should-know/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2018/01... The only deviations from pure correlation are that the extremely poor and rich are EVEN MORE likely to be extremely poor or rich.
      - eanzenberg 8y ago
        The US (I assume you're talking about the US) intragenerational mobility is actually quite strong, meaning people have the ability to impact their own economic outcomes if they choose, or in other words, the American dream (TM). Decreased intergenerational mobility in the US is actually a function of decreased fraction of families earning below 100k, meaning, less people by fraction in the lower and middle class as they've pushed up into the upper >100k tier.
        yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Probably better to measure by where people are on the income distribution than above/below arbitrary points like 100k. Most of the research I've seen uses quintiles as a proxy for "class". If you look downthread, I've linked some that disagrees with you re: USA vs other anglosphere countries.
  - JDiculous 8y ago
    > Amazon would be recruiting people from Ivy League schools, big consulting firms, other large tech companies Amazon is not that pedigree-driven, most people I know who work there went to decent mid-ranked but not Ivy League level schools. Wall Street (front office) and big consulting firms are literally pedigree driven to the point where they often only recruit on Ivy League campuses, Amazon and most other big tech companies are more egalitarian caring more about the tech interview than your diploma.
eanzenberg 8y ago
Actually no, gentrification causes existing homeowners to increase their property values. It literally gives the existing community the opportunity to move up the economic ladder.
- britch 8y ago
  Yes and NYC is known for the many home owners and lack of renters. Sounds like it'd be good for landlords, I'm not sure about the person living paycheck to paycheck to make rent.
- pwagland 8y ago
  _Only_ if the existing community is _also_ the existing landowners. This is not always the case, often you have a large renting population. These renters only see there costs go up, not their assets.
- AngryData 8y ago
  With that in mind, NYC is probably the worst possible place for that since almost nobody owns their own property there, it is mostly all rented out by multi-millionaires.
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  Increasing property value shows up on the balance sheet and the only way to access it is to sell the property and leave, or take on debt. Increasing property values also mean increasing property taxes, which show up in expenses and are due every year whether or not you have the money to pay them. Does taking out a home equity line to pay your taxes sound like a good idea to you? Me neither, and that's why rising property values are often not welcomed by residents who are not already financially well-off. This does not even get into the impact on renters, who might face being evicted so a property owner can sell, or rents rising faster than their wages.
- maxsilver 8y ago
  > Actually no, gentrification causes existing homeowners to increase their property values. Property values are not necessarily wealth. It is entirely possible to gentrify existing homeowners out of their homes despite increasing their property values -- this moves homeowners down the economic ladder. Yes, selling their house technically puts fresh cash in their pocket, but only by drastically increasing their cost of living and by making them search for new housing (which by definition will have to be somewhere cheaper than their current neighborhood, since by definition they can no longer afford their current one). All of this is usually a large net loss in total wealth, despite the sale of their property. Owning a gentrifying home gives you the illusion of wealth building, but if you live in that home, it's really just lifestyle inflation until you sell out. None of the above is a hypothetical, either. That is an accurate description of how real-world Gentrification usually plays out in Midwestern/Flyover USA today.
cco 8y ago
Where in your mind would the affluent residents live?

So you really think Amazon was only going to hire people that already had wealth. It's not possible that somebody making $50k a year, could land a great new position at Amazon making $150k? Cortez is shooting her democrat constituents in the foot, and living up to her affiliation of democratic-socialist.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
marrone12 8y ago
That's not what happens though. Amazon would be recruiting people from Ivy League schools, big consulting firms, other large tech companies.
- nodesocket 8y ago
  Disagree, this constant propagation of rigged system or unfair game is not accurate. I know lots of people who came from very little and were able to work themselves up to economic success. In fact many of the people on the Fobes list came from poor upbringing and backgrounds.
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    And vastly more of them are not on the Forbes list. People have done studies on income mobility and inter-generational income mobility. The studies say that it's getting worse, not better. Yes, people can move up/down, but most don't, and it's happening less over time.
    - nodesocket 8y ago
      Going from the top, Jeff Bezos himself and Warren Buffet both grew up in middle class environments. Bezos worked at McDonalds as a short order cook while Buffett while young was notoriously hard working and frugal. Buffett would take his paper route earnings (mere dollars) and invest in stocks. Anyway, I don't have the resources and time to go through the entire Forbes list, but I suspect there are a lot more people than most would believe and perhaps like to acknowledge from middle class or "lower" class environments.
      - yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Do I really need to explain anecdotes vs data? Income is a strongly inherited trait. Look at this absurdly linear plot in section 2: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2018/01/11/raj-chetty-in-14-charts-big-findings-on-opportunity-and-mobility-we-should-know/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2018/01... The only deviations from pure correlation are that the extremely poor and rich are EVEN MORE likely to be extremely poor or rich.
    - eanzenberg 8y ago
      The US (I assume you're talking about the US) intragenerational mobility is actually quite strong, meaning people have the ability to impact their own economic outcomes if they choose, or in other words, the American dream (TM). Decreased intergenerational mobility in the US is actually a function of decreased fraction of families earning below 100k, meaning, less people by fraction in the lower and middle class as they've pushed up into the upper >100k tier.
      - yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Probably better to measure by where people are on the income distribution than above/below arbitrary points like 100k. Most of the research I've seen uses quintiles as a proxy for "class". If you look downthread, I've linked some that disagrees with you re: USA vs other anglosphere countries.
- JDiculous 8y ago
  > Amazon would be recruiting people from Ivy League schools, big consulting firms, other large tech companies Amazon is not that pedigree-driven, most people I know who work there went to decent mid-ranked but not Ivy League level schools. Wall Street (front office) and big consulting firms are literally pedigree driven to the point where they often only recruit on Ivy League campuses, Amazon and most other big tech companies are more egalitarian caring more about the tech interview than your diploma.

eanzenberg 8y ago

Actually no, gentrification causes existing homeowners to increase their property values. It literally gives the existing community the opportunity to move up the economic ladder.

britch 8y ago
Yes and NYC is known for the many home owners and lack of renters. Sounds like it'd be good for landlords, I'm not sure about the person living paycheck to paycheck to make rent.
pwagland 8y ago
_Only_ if the existing community is _also_ the existing landowners. This is not always the case, often you have a large renting population. These renters only see there costs go up, not their assets.
AngryData 8y ago
With that in mind, NYC is probably the worst possible place for that since almost nobody owns their own property there, it is mostly all rented out by multi-millionaires.
snowwrestler 8y ago
Increasing property value shows up on the balance sheet and the only way to access it is to sell the property and leave, or take on debt. Increasing property values also mean increasing property taxes, which show up in expenses and are due every year whether or not you have the money to pay them. Does taking out a home equity line to pay your taxes sound like a good idea to you? Me neither, and that's why rising property values are often not welcomed by residents who are not already financially well-off. This does not even get into the impact on renters, who might face being evicted so a property owner can sell, or rents rising faster than their wages.
maxsilver 8y ago
> Actually no, gentrification causes existing homeowners to increase their property values. Property values are not necessarily wealth. It is entirely possible to gentrify existing homeowners out of their homes despite increasing their property values -- this moves homeowners down the economic ladder. Yes, selling their house technically puts fresh cash in their pocket, but only by drastically increasing their cost of living and by making them search for new housing (which by definition will have to be somewhere cheaper than their current neighborhood, since by definition they can no longer afford their current one). All of this is usually a large net loss in total wealth, despite the sale of their property. Owning a gentrifying home gives you the illusion of wealth building, but if you live in that home, it's really just lifestyle inflation until you sell out. None of the above is a hypothetical, either. That is an accurate description of how real-world Gentrification usually plays out in Midwestern/Flyover USA today.

cco 8y ago

Where in your mind would the affluent residents live?