5 ms·

I feel like the problem isn't time... it's energy. If you slack enough at your main job to have the energy to push your side project you're doing a disservice

I feel like the problem isn't time... it's energy. If you slack enough at your main job to have the energy to push your side project you're doing a disservice to your employer.

stephsmithio 8y ago
I don't think that creating things on the side is mutually exclusive with doing a good job at work.
thompsons 8y ago
Agreed. Having one or more side projects, a full time job, relationship, etc. is great. People are aspiring to become 'makers' and turning otherwise relaxed side projects (couple hours here, couple hours there) into fully-fledged effort is a massive energy sink that requires some form of sacrifice, and therein lies the struggle. Slacking off at work is a solution, albeit one that (despite risking career, if that's a de-motivator) could move you closer to burnout via laziness and / or turn a simple dissatisfaction towards your day job into contempt for each working day. Which is why it's important to either A) know you're the type of person who can slug it out for potential future reward, or B) work on an idea you actually enjoy, will continue to enjoy, and can slack off every now and then
darkpuma 8y ago
God I hope you're not a manager. When you see an employee's pictures of a strenuous hike they went on, is your first thought that they must be stealing that energy from the company?
- lukebitts 8y ago
  GP is probably talking about themselves. I too feel very little energy to program my personal projects after spending the whole day programming for my company
  - w323898 8y ago
    Maybe your personal projects shouldn't involve programming?
    - lukebitts 8y ago
      Why?
      - w323898 8y ago
        It sounds like you're not that into it. Plus the assumption that people should spend their free time trying to make more money is weird despite being taken for granted around here. It's one heck of a doublethink, if you consider the combination of aspirational self-improvement talk with bald careerism.
        lukebitts 8y ago
        > It sounds like you're not that into it Assuming you are right, do you think if I was actually into programming I wouldn't feel too tired for more programming after work? I'm asking because not having the energy for more programming after doing it for the whole day seems pretty normal to me and not really indicative of being into programming or not but... am I wrong?
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    Why phrase it as doing a "disservice to your employer" rather than "a disservice to yourself"? That sort of phrasing is a huge red flag for me.
- Madmallard 8y ago
  I don't think working out zaps work energy I think it would actually enhance it. But doing intellectual work on the job likely reduces capacity for intellectual work off the job at least in that same day.
amoitnga 8y ago
I agree with you here. After 8 hours of intensive coding, or whatever I could squeeze out of myself that day, going home and doing more of the same is the last thing I want to do. I doubt we can code for 12-14 hours a day steadily for a long period of time.
- wccrawford 8y ago
  Studies have shown that people can't reliably work mental jobs for more than 8 hours a day long-term and keep up the same level of quality. I can't see why it would matter if those hours were spent at home or in an office. So yeah, I'm sure that it's not sustainable long-term.
- cr0sh 8y ago
  > I doubt we can code for 12-14 hours a day steadily for a long period of time. For me, it depends on what I'm coding. If I were to go home and work on something practical or "planned" - yeah, I might not like that much. But if it's for something fun, or just "playing around" - then I can do that all day long. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, I recall just "futzing around on my computer". Now, granted, this was in the 1980s - and my computer was an 8-bit TRS-80 - but I played. That's what I like to do today. I'm not there to make anything revolutionary - but rather just to play around with an idea or concept. Maybe one day it's Python with some OpenGL or QT; maybe another it's maze generation algorithms in Javascript; on another day it might be some kind of sound generation code in QB64! Just all for fun - for myself. Not for a business, not for anything else much except maybe learning something new, and having some fun! Being a kid again, in a way; I'm 45 years old, btw. This could really be anything; you could do the same with hardware - an Arduino project for fun, or maybe Lego (you could combine all three - fun coding on an Arduino to control your Lego motors or whatnot)... The key is that it isn't work - it is instead play. Just because you're an adult, doesn't mean you can't play, or that you shouldn't play. That's a lie that society wants you to believe. Instead of thinking "I need me time to make a business" instead just say "I need me time to play" - sure, it won't lead to you becoming rich monetarily, but it will make you happier, possibly healthier. Call it a hobby, call it playing with your toys, just don't call it work - because it shouldn't be.
fwip 8y ago
For me, this statement is definitely true. I can manage about 3-4 hours of concentrated problem-solving a day at work. While I do do side projects, I have noticed that the energy I spend on them takes some of the energy I normally spend on work. In the evenings I sometimes don't have enough mental energy to even decide what dinner to cook, let alone work on side projects, so I do most of that on weekends "for fun." Personally, I can't imagine trying to monetize that - I'd burn out way too fast. Different people are different, though.
- madamelic 8y ago
  >I can manage about 3-4 hours of concentrated problem-solving a day at work. >In the evenings I sometimes don't have enough mental energy Here's my solution: Take your most valuable hours for yourself. Work in the morning and sell your less valuable hours. Is your employer going to notice? Extremely likely not. I am sure your job isn't just heads-down code monkey and involves meetings and other planning that aren't as draining.
  - haswell 8y ago
    > Meetings and other planning that aren't as draining These are generally the MOST draining activities.
- glitchc 8y ago
  Different people will either admit your truth or prefer to remain in denial. We all only have a finite amount of energy every day. The best is when that energy peaks, so it goes to whatever we’re doing at that time. Other competing tasks will get shortchanged, no matter how skilled you think you are at compartmentalizing, time management, etc. Something always has to give.
james_s_tayler 8y ago
Yeah I feel this a lot. It's my biggest struggle. I'm not trying to build a product at the moment just doing a year long deep dive into every part of the fundamentals. The aim is to hit 2hrs ~ 3hrs a night of study. The worst thing is when I haven't managed my energy levels correctly and I can only manage 1hr or 1.5hrs and I'm fighting to stay awake. It just feels like I'm losing the opportunity to make use of that time. There is still plenty to work on in terms of managing energy levels. Most nights I can hit 2hrs but ideally if I could hit 3hr or even 2.5hrs consistently that adds up. It's not a trivial difference.

I feel like the problem isn't time... it's energy. If you slack enough at your main job to have the energy to push your side project you're doing a disservice to your employer.

stephsmithio 8y ago

I don't think that creating things on the side is mutually exclusive with doing a good job at work.

thompsons 8y ago

Agreed. Having one or more side projects, a full time job, relationship, etc. is great. People are aspiring to become 'makers' and turning otherwise relaxed side projects (couple hours here, couple hours there) into fully-fledged effort is a massive energy sink that requires some form of sacrifice, and therein lies the struggle. Slacking off at work is a solution, albeit one that (despite risking career, if that's a de-motivator) could move you closer to burnout via laziness and / or turn a simple dissatisfaction towards your day job into contempt for each working day. Which is why it's important to either A) know you're the type of person who can slug it out for potential future reward, or B) work on an idea you actually enjoy, will continue to enjoy, and can slack off every now and then

darkpuma 8y ago

God I hope you're not a manager. When you see an employee's pictures of a strenuous hike they went on, is your first thought that they must be stealing that energy from the company?

lukebitts 8y ago
GP is probably talking about themselves. I too feel very little energy to program my personal projects after spending the whole day programming for my company
- w323898 8y ago
  Maybe your personal projects shouldn't involve programming?
  - lukebitts 8y ago
    Why?
    - w323898 8y ago
      It sounds like you're not that into it. Plus the assumption that people should spend their free time trying to make more money is weird despite being taken for granted around here. It's one heck of a doublethink, if you consider the combination of aspirational self-improvement talk with bald careerism.
      - lukebitts 8y ago
        > It sounds like you're not that into it Assuming you are right, do you think if I was actually into programming I wouldn't feel too tired for more programming after work? I'm asking because not having the energy for more programming after doing it for the whole day seems pretty normal to me and not really indicative of being into programming or not but... am I wrong?
- darkpuma 8y ago
  Why phrase it as doing a "disservice to your employer" rather than "a disservice to yourself"? That sort of phrasing is a huge red flag for me.
Madmallard 8y ago
I don't think working out zaps work energy I think it would actually enhance it. But doing intellectual work on the job likely reduces capacity for intellectual work off the job at least in that same day.

amoitnga 8y ago

I agree with you here. After 8 hours of intensive coding, or whatever I could squeeze out of myself that day, going home and doing more of the same is the last thing I want to do. I doubt we can code for 12-14 hours a day steadily for a long period of time.

wccrawford 8y ago
Studies have shown that people can't reliably work mental jobs for more than 8 hours a day long-term and keep up the same level of quality. I can't see why it would matter if those hours were spent at home or in an office. So yeah, I'm sure that it's not sustainable long-term.
cr0sh 8y ago
> I doubt we can code for 12-14 hours a day steadily for a long period of time. For me, it depends on what I'm coding. If I were to go home and work on something practical or "planned" - yeah, I might not like that much. But if it's for something fun, or just "playing around" - then I can do that all day long. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, I recall just "futzing around on my computer". Now, granted, this was in the 1980s - and my computer was an 8-bit TRS-80 - but I played. That's what I like to do today. I'm not there to make anything revolutionary - but rather just to play around with an idea or concept. Maybe one day it's Python with some OpenGL or QT; maybe another it's maze generation algorithms in Javascript; on another day it might be some kind of sound generation code in QB64! Just all for fun - for myself. Not for a business, not for anything else much except maybe learning something new, and having some fun! Being a kid again, in a way; I'm 45 years old, btw. This could really be anything; you could do the same with hardware - an Arduino project for fun, or maybe Lego (you could combine all three - fun coding on an Arduino to control your Lego motors or whatnot)... The key is that it isn't work - it is instead play. Just because you're an adult, doesn't mean you can't play, or that you shouldn't play. That's a lie that society wants you to believe. Instead of thinking "I need me time to make a business" instead just say "I need me time to play" - sure, it won't lead to you becoming rich monetarily, but it will make you happier, possibly healthier. Call it a hobby, call it playing with your toys, just don't call it work - because it shouldn't be.

fwip 8y ago

For me, this statement is definitely true. I can manage about 3-4 hours of concentrated problem-solving a day at work. While I do do side projects, I have noticed that the energy I spend on them takes some of the energy I normally spend on work. In the evenings I sometimes don't have enough mental energy to even decide what dinner to cook, let alone work on side projects, so I do most of that on weekends "for fun." Personally, I can't imagine trying to monetize that - I'd burn out way too fast. Different people are different, though.

madamelic 8y ago
>I can manage about 3-4 hours of concentrated problem-solving a day at work. >In the evenings I sometimes don't have enough mental energy Here's my solution: Take your most valuable hours for yourself. Work in the morning and sell your less valuable hours. Is your employer going to notice? Extremely likely not. I am sure your job isn't just heads-down code monkey and involves meetings and other planning that aren't as draining.
- haswell 8y ago
  > Meetings and other planning that aren't as draining These are generally the MOST draining activities.
glitchc 8y ago
Different people will either admit your truth or prefer to remain in denial. We all only have a finite amount of energy every day. The best is when that energy peaks, so it goes to whatever we’re doing at that time. Other competing tasks will get shortchanged, no matter how skilled you think you are at compartmentalizing, time management, etc. Something always has to give.

james_s_tayler 8y ago

Yeah I feel this a lot. It's my biggest struggle. I'm not trying to build a product at the moment just doing a year long deep dive into every part of the fundamentals. The aim is to hit 2hrs ~ 3hrs a night of study. The worst thing is when I haven't managed my energy levels correctly and I can only manage 1hr or 1.5hrs and I'm fighting to stay awake. It just feels like I'm losing the opportunity to make use of that time. There is still plenty to work on in terms of managing energy levels. Most nights I can hit 2hrs but ideally if I could hit 3hr or even 2.5hrs consistently that adds up. It's not a trivial difference.