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The left abhors facts of genetics just as the right abhors facts of climate change. In both cases there is a lot of virtue signaling going on, they know that

The left abhors facts of genetics just as the right abhors facts of climate change. In both cases there is a lot of virtue signaling going on, they know that the science is not on their side but they can not admit it because to do so would get them cast out of their in-group.

tormeh 8y ago
I dunno. What if the right found out that poor people are poor because of genetics, luck and environment, i.e. no fault of their own, rather than laziness? Oh man, that'd be a problem, wouldn't it?
- opwieurposiu 8y ago
  Once you account for "genetics, luck and environment" the only thing left is free will. I think you are absolutely correct, "Does free will exist?" is a huge problem for politics, philosophy, sociology etc.
  - ahartmetz 8y ago
    My position is that if it doesn't exist, it is a necessary fiction to keep our laws and social norms working. They are based on what feels just and right, the rationalization of which requires free will. I don't see how laws and social norms would work without the assumption of free will. I'm not saying it would be absolutely impossible.
    - ListeningPie 8y ago
      I agree with you. We are determined by factors we do not control (genes, environment) The justification of criminal justice is to make an example to society that a behavior is unacceptable. Thus creating an environment where that behavior is discouraged. In my mind the environment is responsible for a criminal. The way we have chosen to punish their environment is to remove the individual from it. This brings shame to the family or splitting up a family or loss of income due to the person being removed. The person with the hardest punishment(in jail) is least responsible. In dictatorships they actually punish the family of the criminal, which is a contributing factor to how they can hold power. Everyone is more invested in everyone conforming. On the positive side, is parents feeling pride if their children succeed. We cannot give the success directly to the parents for raising their child, therefore they enjoy the success of their children by proxy, pride. This of course extends to every link being a product of their environment and thus, for now, we need the fiction of free will. How would a society that accepts there is no free will function? That would make a mind blowing sci-fi film or novel.

tormeh 8y ago

I dunno. What if the right found out that poor people are poor because of genetics, luck and environment, i.e. no fault of their own, rather than laziness? Oh man, that'd be a problem, wouldn't it?

opwieurposiu 8y ago
Once you account for "genetics, luck and environment" the only thing left is free will. I think you are absolutely correct, "Does free will exist?" is a huge problem for politics, philosophy, sociology etc.
- ahartmetz 8y ago
  My position is that if it doesn't exist, it is a necessary fiction to keep our laws and social norms working. They are based on what feels just and right, the rationalization of which requires free will. I don't see how laws and social norms would work without the assumption of free will. I'm not saying it would be absolutely impossible.
  - ListeningPie 8y ago
    I agree with you. We are determined by factors we do not control (genes, environment) The justification of criminal justice is to make an example to society that a behavior is unacceptable. Thus creating an environment where that behavior is discouraged. In my mind the environment is responsible for a criminal. The way we have chosen to punish their environment is to remove the individual from it. This brings shame to the family or splitting up a family or loss of income due to the person being removed. The person with the hardest punishment(in jail) is least responsible. In dictatorships they actually punish the family of the criminal, which is a contributing factor to how they can hold power. Everyone is more invested in everyone conforming. On the positive side, is parents feeling pride if their children succeed. We cannot give the success directly to the parents for raising their child, therefore they enjoy the success of their children by proxy, pride. This of course extends to every link being a product of their environment and thus, for now, we need the fiction of free will. How would a society that accepts there is no free will function? That would make a mind blowing sci-fi film or novel.