6 ms·

> Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. Ok? That is standard practice when you own a home. You are responsible for all the maintenan

by imgabe 8y ago

> Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. Ok? That is standard practice when you own a home. You are responsible for all the maintenance on your home. What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I assume they have to be cleaned every so often. Anything else? Maybe you have an electrician come and retorque the connections once a year? It's not like they have a lot of moving parts assuming it's not doing anything fancy like sun-tracking.

throwaway5752 8y ago
Have you owned a multi-kW inverter before? Because if you know one that is mostly free of drama I would love to know the brand! Solar photovoltaic systems are not as maintenance free as one might wish. They still make a ton of financial sense if you own them outright, but inverters and critter damage to wiring can be unwelcome surprise costs.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- secabeen 8y ago
  I have an Aurora PVI-6000-OUTD-US that's been pretty solid. I've also heard good things about the Sunny-Boy inverters. One thing I like about my Aurora is that there is a linux command-line tool that can pull data from the inverter over serial. I pull data from mine every 5 minutes into text files on my home server.
  - throwaway5752 8y ago
    Thank you. I have a SolarEdge currently... after two bad units (to their credit, under warranty) the third has been solid for a long time. I have heard mixed things about microinverters, and my installation has developed partial shading over time (damn trees!) so that's something else I've looked at.
- Nanzikambe 8y ago
  Victron's Multiplus and Quattro are drama free. I buried and conduited/sealed all my cabling and had zero issues. Added bonus: if you use them with a CCGX and are comfortable with MQQT and/or Python there is literally nothing you can't control, automate or visualise with them. The CCGX itself is arm + linux and mostly open sourced https://www.victronenergy.com/live/open_source:start https://www.victronenergy.com/live/open_source:start The downsides are: 1) price but imho you get what you pay for many times over. 2) veconfigure for the multiplus itself is windows only, but runs fine in Wine on Linux and Mac
- lakisy 8y ago
  We bought our solar panels from Solar Edge.It's a 4.5-5 KW system We are in our forth year. I've done nothing to it, no maintenance. It just works. Every now and then it rains and that cleans up the panels enough.
eyko 8y ago
It'll probably also increase the cost of your home insurance. I'm not from the USA, but over here, accidents and acts of nature (e.g. a serious hailstorm) can damage your solar panels to the point they need replacing. If you bought them yourself, you usually add them to your home insurance, or purchase separate insurance just for the solar installation (which includes not just the panels). Sometimes, getting it on a lease contract works out much cheaper, but the situation could be different in the USA -- for starters, as the article mentions, solar is quite subsidized in other countries (although in my case, I'm speaking about Europe), and startups / small businesses that deal with solar are also subsidized (except Spain, which recently changed in unpopular ways which I don't completely understand, yet). That creates a situation where companies that "lease" tend to try to be competitive with the already subsidized market. It sometimes turns out to be slightly more expensive, but the hassle-free nature of having "pros" maintain your installation and ask very few questions tends to be something people are interested in. As an anecdote: a friend was doing some building work in his house and managed to damage a panel. They were replaced at no charge in less than a week. I was surprised because it was clearly his fault, but I guess they also want to keep their customers happy. Almost made me consider going with them if I bought my home.
sys_64738 8y ago
You've got the weight of the things bolted to your roof. Is your roof new or less than new and needing replaced before the solar panels are paid for? Do you know a roofer who will touch solar panels during a re-roof? This doesn't even discuss the installer incompetence and the damage they'll do to your roof during install. Those panels are bolted to the roof and bolts cut through shingles and the sheathing underneath. All entry points for water. Bolting solar panels to the roof is not viable in the long run, IMO. The damage and the advancement of tech means these things will be obsolete in the near term.
- m4x 8y ago
  What do you see obsoleting solar panels in the near term?
  - sys_64738 8y ago
    Solar shingles is where it's eventually gonna end up on cost and beauty, IMO.
  - gilnaa 8y ago
    Roof-installed consumer-grade nuclear reactors
- lightedman 8y ago
  "Bolting solar panels to the roof is not viable in the long run, IMO. The damage and the advancement of tech means these things will be obsolete in the near term" I work in Solar. Your efficiency gains on single-junction monocrystalline cells are on the order of one percent per half decade. Damage to bolting to a roof? Not very much at all if you actually use the included sealing gaskets instead of bolting it straight in like most idiot installers, and the framing, done right, actually adds rigidity to your roof frame.
jsight 8y ago
Unfortunately inverters fail, including the little microinverters (or optimizers with something like solaredge) on the panels themselves. This requires a qualified person to repair and possibly roof access as well. Depending on which panel it is, they may have to temporarily remove multiple panels to get to it. If the cost of labor is on the consumer, this can wipe out months of returns in a single visit. Of course, it isn't required to offer a lease in order to also offer a warranty, which is the real solution here.
- apendleton 8y ago
  This is a risk with Sunrun too, though, and the risk that it will happen is undoubtedly factored into what they charge.
  - jsight 8y ago
    That is true, but I've still occasionally seen people misunderstand it. Some feel like the company is more obligated to respond in a lease deal. To be clear, I don't think that is true and I really don't think very many people should actually agree to lease deals. They are almost always bad for the consumer.
- secabeen 8y ago
  Yeah. Most inverters have multiple-year warranties, and often offer extended warranties out to about 10 years for the non-micro string inverters. You should still expect a full inverter upgrade/replacement every 10 years.
octorian 8y ago
I have a system from SolarCity that also came with my home when I bought it. This past year was finally the point where "buying it out" was possible, but I procrastinated. In retrospect, it's actually a good thing I did. My panels turned out to have a manufacturing defect, and now all need to be replaced. Because of the arrangement, SolarCity is doing it for me. That being said, their monthly cost is fixed so it's more a philosophical issue for me. I may still just buy it outright someday, especially if I want to expand it.
BeetleB 8y ago
>What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I don't remember the details, but whenever a solar company reaches out to me they list all the maintenance they will perform on the panels (a not insignificant list), and that they will charge for it if I buy it instead of lease. And that's where I tell them they just convinced me not to get solar. Where I live, every few years I get roof damage due to weather. These would be covered with a lease, but not with a purchase. Then there are things they don't cover at all. My roof will need to be replaced in the next few years. They said that they'll remove all the panels and reinstall them for a fee (even with a lease). When asked for the amount of the fee, they usually give me a range ("it depends on each situation"). The problem is that fee wipes out quite a lot of the savings. My electricity bill is only about $60 at the moment. With their lease plans, I'll save perhaps only $10/month. A fee of a few hundred dollars wipes out years of savings. I don't honestly know if maintenance will be a problem in reality. I just know that I can't trust them to let me know what kind of maintenance is involved.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I don't remember the details, but whenever a solar company reaches out to me they list all the maintenance they will perform on the panels (a not insignificant list), and that they will charge for it if I buy it instead of lease That's because they want you to lease, not buy (and not just “lease in preference to buying”), because of their business model (and quite possibly sales agent incentives that exaggerate preferences in the actual business model.) Sort of like how (well, before most of them went belly up because of internet competition), brick and mortar chain computer store sales staff would prefer driving off a sale to making one without an extended warranty.
Hankenstein2 8y ago
I had solar panels for 13 years that I bought up front. Never cleaned them, never had to do anything. We had 1 cataclysmic hail storm (Colorado) that destroyed our roof but the panels had zero damage. We had to pay $5000 to get the panels off to fix the roof but the insurance paid for it. We also paid no extra insurance for the panels. One of the best decisions we ever made. We just recently sold the house and it is true the panels gave no extra bump to the sales price but the new owners are ecstatic which is also a warm fuzzy.
URSpider94 8y ago
It’s risk. You put in a $25k system, then the inverter blows and it’s useless to you until you spend $3k for a new one. That does happen, probably a few percent per year chance. If you don’t have $3k lying around, then you are one failure away from effectively losing $25k.

by imgabe 8y ago

throwaway5752 8y ago

Have you owned a multi-kW inverter before? Because if you know one that is mostly free of drama I would love to know the brand! Solar photovoltaic systems are not as maintenance free as one might wish. They still make a ton of financial sense if you own them outright, but inverters and critter damage to wiring can be unwelcome surprise costs.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
secabeen 8y ago
I have an Aurora PVI-6000-OUTD-US that's been pretty solid. I've also heard good things about the Sunny-Boy inverters. One thing I like about my Aurora is that there is a linux command-line tool that can pull data from the inverter over serial. I pull data from mine every 5 minutes into text files on my home server.
- throwaway5752 8y ago
  Thank you. I have a SolarEdge currently... after two bad units (to their credit, under warranty) the third has been solid for a long time. I have heard mixed things about microinverters, and my installation has developed partial shading over time (damn trees!) so that's something else I've looked at.
Nanzikambe 8y ago
Victron's Multiplus and Quattro are drama free. I buried and conduited/sealed all my cabling and had zero issues. Added bonus: if you use them with a CCGX and are comfortable with MQQT and/or Python there is literally nothing you can't control, automate or visualise with them. The CCGX itself is arm + linux and mostly open sourced https://www.victronenergy.com/live/open_source:start https://www.victronenergy.com/live/open_source:start The downsides are: 1) price but imho you get what you pay for many times over. 2) veconfigure for the multiplus itself is windows only, but runs fine in Wine on Linux and Mac
lakisy 8y ago
We bought our solar panels from Solar Edge.It's a 4.5-5 KW system We are in our forth year. I've done nothing to it, no maintenance. It just works. Every now and then it rains and that cleans up the panels enough.

eyko 8y ago

It'll probably also increase the cost of your home insurance. I'm not from the USA, but over here, accidents and acts of nature (e.g. a serious hailstorm) can damage your solar panels to the point they need replacing. If you bought them yourself, you usually add them to your home insurance, or purchase separate insurance just for the solar installation (which includes not just the panels). Sometimes, getting it on a lease contract works out much cheaper, but the situation could be different in the USA -- for starters, as the article mentions, solar is quite subsidized in other countries (although in my case, I'm speaking about Europe), and startups / small businesses that deal with solar are also subsidized (except Spain, which recently changed in unpopular ways which I don't completely understand, yet). That creates a situation where companies that "lease" tend to try to be competitive with the already subsidized market. It sometimes turns out to be slightly more expensive, but the hassle-free nature of having "pros" maintain your installation and ask very few questions tends to be something people are interested in. As an anecdote: a friend was doing some building work in his house and managed to damage a panel. They were replaced at no charge in less than a week. I was surprised because it was clearly his fault, but I guess they also want to keep their customers happy. Almost made me consider going with them if I bought my home.

sys_64738 8y ago

You've got the weight of the things bolted to your roof. Is your roof new or less than new and needing replaced before the solar panels are paid for? Do you know a roofer who will touch solar panels during a re-roof? This doesn't even discuss the installer incompetence and the damage they'll do to your roof during install. Those panels are bolted to the roof and bolts cut through shingles and the sheathing underneath. All entry points for water. Bolting solar panels to the roof is not viable in the long run, IMO. The damage and the advancement of tech means these things will be obsolete in the near term.

m4x 8y ago
What do you see obsoleting solar panels in the near term?
- sys_64738 8y ago
  Solar shingles is where it's eventually gonna end up on cost and beauty, IMO.
- gilnaa 8y ago
  Roof-installed consumer-grade nuclear reactors
lightedman 8y ago
"Bolting solar panels to the roof is not viable in the long run, IMO. The damage and the advancement of tech means these things will be obsolete in the near term" I work in Solar. Your efficiency gains on single-junction monocrystalline cells are on the order of one percent per half decade. Damage to bolting to a roof? Not very much at all if you actually use the included sealing gaskets instead of bolting it straight in like most idiot installers, and the framing, done right, actually adds rigidity to your roof frame.

jsight 8y ago

Unfortunately inverters fail, including the little microinverters (or optimizers with something like solaredge) on the panels themselves. This requires a qualified person to repair and possibly roof access as well. Depending on which panel it is, they may have to temporarily remove multiple panels to get to it. If the cost of labor is on the consumer, this can wipe out months of returns in a single visit. Of course, it isn't required to offer a lease in order to also offer a warranty, which is the real solution here.

apendleton 8y ago
This is a risk with Sunrun too, though, and the risk that it will happen is undoubtedly factored into what they charge.
- jsight 8y ago
  That is true, but I've still occasionally seen people misunderstand it. Some feel like the company is more obligated to respond in a lease deal. To be clear, I don't think that is true and I really don't think very many people should actually agree to lease deals. They are almost always bad for the consumer.
secabeen 8y ago
Yeah. Most inverters have multiple-year warranties, and often offer extended warranties out to about 10 years for the non-micro string inverters. You should still expect a full inverter upgrade/replacement every 10 years.

octorian 8y ago

I have a system from SolarCity that also came with my home when I bought it. This past year was finally the point where "buying it out" was possible, but I procrastinated. In retrospect, it's actually a good thing I did. My panels turned out to have a manufacturing defect, and now all need to be replaced. Because of the arrangement, SolarCity is doing it for me. That being said, their monthly cost is fixed so it's more a philosophical issue for me. I may still just buy it outright someday, especially if I want to expand it.

BeetleB 8y ago

>What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I don't remember the details, but whenever a solar company reaches out to me they list all the maintenance they will perform on the panels (a not insignificant list), and that they will charge for it if I buy it instead of lease. And that's where I tell them they just convinced me not to get solar. Where I live, every few years I get roof damage due to weather. These would be covered with a lease, but not with a purchase. Then there are things they don't cover at all. My roof will need to be replaced in the next few years. They said that they'll remove all the panels and reinstall them for a fee (even with a lease). When asked for the amount of the fee, they usually give me a range ("it depends on each situation"). The problem is that fee wipes out quite a lot of the savings. My electricity bill is only about $60 at the moment. With their lease plans, I'll save perhaps only $10/month. A fee of a few hundred dollars wipes out years of savings. I don't honestly know if maintenance will be a problem in reality. I just know that I can't trust them to let me know what kind of maintenance is involved.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> I don't remember the details, but whenever a solar company reaches out to me they list all the maintenance they will perform on the panels (a not insignificant list), and that they will charge for it if I buy it instead of lease That's because they want you to lease, not buy (and not just “lease in preference to buying”), because of their business model (and quite possibly sales agent incentives that exaggerate preferences in the actual business model.) Sort of like how (well, before most of them went belly up because of internet competition), brick and mortar chain computer store sales staff would prefer driving off a sale to making one without an extended warranty.

Hankenstein2 8y ago

I had solar panels for 13 years that I bought up front. Never cleaned them, never had to do anything. We had 1 cataclysmic hail storm (Colorado) that destroyed our roof but the panels had zero damage. We had to pay $5000 to get the panels off to fix the roof but the insurance paid for it. We also paid no extra insurance for the panels. One of the best decisions we ever made. We just recently sold the house and it is true the panels gave no extra bump to the sales price but the new owners are ecstatic which is also a warm fuzzy.

URSpider94 8y ago

It’s risk. You put in a $25k system, then the inverter blows and it’s useless to you until you spend $3k for a new one. That does happen, probably a few percent per year chance. If you don’t have $3k lying around, then you are one failure away from effectively losing $25k.