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"If you just dismiss these religious texts as opium for the dull medieval masses, you might miss some deep poetical truths about mankind that just cannot be sta

"If you just dismiss these religious texts as opium for the dull medieval masses, you might miss some deep poetical truths about mankind that just cannot be stated explicitly because of the shortcomings of any human language described above." I generally agree with your take on how we should read these texts. However, nobody (that I know of) has been using Shakespeare to justify preventing me from buying whiskey on a Sunday. These texts are read as literal truth by the people where I live (rural Texas) and used to justify some pretty heinous things. So at the same time that we might wish to read these books as literature, I understand the impulse to dismiss certain modes of reading these texts as harmful. I don't know many folks who hate the literature itself, though I'm sure they exist somewhere; however, dismissing some exegetical modes seems reasonable to me.

lqet 8y ago
> These texts are read as literal truth by the people where I live (rural Texas) and used to justify some pretty heinous things. As a European who is pretty naive on this issue, I am slowly realizing how controversial my original post was as I am reading the responses here. I now regret writing it.
- krapp 8y ago
  >I now regret writing it. You shouldn't, you were completely correct, just not aware of how correct you were.
DiffEq 8y ago
Except nowhere in the Bible does it say that you can not buy whisky on Sunday.
- sleazy_b 8y ago
  The prohibition against conducting business on the sabbath might be where this comes from.
  - DiffEq 8y ago
    Sure but the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday. And current christian dogma is that the law is no longer required to be kept (Grace). So whatever mainstream christian religions do today in terms of what they "allow or do not allow" is just whatever they decided they wanted to allow or not allow. So these people are not reading the Bible and taking it literally, they are reading the Bible to get ideas on how tell others to not do, or do, whatever they approve of or don't approve of. It is rather...what would Christ say, Pharisaical?
    - troutwine 8y ago
      There are many Christian sects that sync their day of rest with the Sabbath. I believe current Eastern Orthodox Christians observe Friday Evening to Saturday Evening as the day of rest and there are, as well, sub-sects in Catholic and Protestant Christianity which follow sabbatarian notions. I grew up near some Methodists which held the Sabbath. Then there's Messianic Judaism which is a whole other level of observation. > And current christian dogma is that the law is no longer required to be kept (Grace). So whatever mainstream christian religions do today in terms of what they "allow or do not allow" is just whatever they decided they wanted to allow or not allow. There's some truth to this and there's some over-simplification in this. There's a long, anguished tradition in Christianity with regard to figuring out what was meant by Christ coming to fulfill the law. James the Just, brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem church, was clearly of the opinion that the Law was still valid and must be followed. Paul held that the Law had been superseded, though having been a pious Pharisee he can't help himself from re-introducing 'superseded' things back into the true and moral way for the new Christian community to live. That Pauline Christianity is the norm these days is very much due to the actions of the Romans in 70CE+. I'd argue that most sects, at least at their outset, are attempting very earnestly to discern the Will as best they can but slight differences in emphasis will have outsize impact over time. Consider that the difference between Lutheranism and Catholicism can convincingly be argued to be rooted in an emphasis on Augustine's notion of the Individual Before God in the former and an emphasis on Augustine's notion of the Church Before God. Look at all the difference in relationship to worship that has blossomed out of that. > So these people are not reading the Bible and taking it literally, they are reading the Bible to get ideas on how tell others to not do, or do, whatever they approve of or don't approve of. Some do. Others behave this way because they've never lived outside of sect-specific hegemony, let alone Christian hegemony and it doesn't occur to them that they're enforcing a very specific way of life that should be chosen. Others follow a very ritualized faith and are, at some level, aware that it is only ritual and therefore fear people outside of the ritual. Kierkegaard spent a good chunk of his life thinking about this kind of ritualized worship and its degradation for the faith of a community. Anyway. I've read, though I can't for the life of me remember where, that the best thing for Christianity will be the utter destruction of Christendom. I quite agree. > It is rather...what would Christ say, Pharisaical? This would likely be Scribe-ish, given the lawyerly behavior. Luke and John tended to paint the Pharisees in a bad light -- amusingly, often, as stand-ins for the Romans -- but Jesus was sympathetic to the devout, even if he was unsparing in his criticism of hypocrisy.
- Prologue 8y ago
  And still it is used! Just like it never says anything against stem cell research or homosexuality.
- scarecrowbob 8y ago
  Yeah, I know, I've read it. One of my fond childhood memories is not being able to buy this cheap, blue, plastic squirtgun because it was Sunday. I'm pretty sure that's not in the bible either, but theocrats gonna do what they do.

lqet 8y ago

> These texts are read as literal truth by the people where I live (rural Texas) and used to justify some pretty heinous things. As a European who is pretty naive on this issue, I am slowly realizing how controversial my original post was as I am reading the responses here. I now regret writing it.

krapp 8y ago
>I now regret writing it. You shouldn't, you were completely correct, just not aware of how correct you were.

DiffEq 8y ago

Except nowhere in the Bible does it say that you can not buy whisky on Sunday.

sleazy_b 8y ago
The prohibition against conducting business on the sabbath might be where this comes from.
- DiffEq 8y ago
  Sure but the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday. And current christian dogma is that the law is no longer required to be kept (Grace). So whatever mainstream christian religions do today in terms of what they "allow or do not allow" is just whatever they decided they wanted to allow or not allow. So these people are not reading the Bible and taking it literally, they are reading the Bible to get ideas on how tell others to not do, or do, whatever they approve of or don't approve of. It is rather...what would Christ say, Pharisaical?
  - troutwine 8y ago
    There are many Christian sects that sync their day of rest with the Sabbath. I believe current Eastern Orthodox Christians observe Friday Evening to Saturday Evening as the day of rest and there are, as well, sub-sects in Catholic and Protestant Christianity which follow sabbatarian notions. I grew up near some Methodists which held the Sabbath. Then there's Messianic Judaism which is a whole other level of observation. > And current christian dogma is that the law is no longer required to be kept (Grace). So whatever mainstream christian religions do today in terms of what they "allow or do not allow" is just whatever they decided they wanted to allow or not allow. There's some truth to this and there's some over-simplification in this. There's a long, anguished tradition in Christianity with regard to figuring out what was meant by Christ coming to fulfill the law. James the Just, brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem church, was clearly of the opinion that the Law was still valid and must be followed. Paul held that the Law had been superseded, though having been a pious Pharisee he can't help himself from re-introducing 'superseded' things back into the true and moral way for the new Christian community to live. That Pauline Christianity is the norm these days is very much due to the actions of the Romans in 70CE+. I'd argue that most sects, at least at their outset, are attempting very earnestly to discern the Will as best they can but slight differences in emphasis will have outsize impact over time. Consider that the difference between Lutheranism and Catholicism can convincingly be argued to be rooted in an emphasis on Augustine's notion of the Individual Before God in the former and an emphasis on Augustine's notion of the Church Before God. Look at all the difference in relationship to worship that has blossomed out of that. > So these people are not reading the Bible and taking it literally, they are reading the Bible to get ideas on how tell others to not do, or do, whatever they approve of or don't approve of. Some do. Others behave this way because they've never lived outside of sect-specific hegemony, let alone Christian hegemony and it doesn't occur to them that they're enforcing a very specific way of life that should be chosen. Others follow a very ritualized faith and are, at some level, aware that it is only ritual and therefore fear people outside of the ritual. Kierkegaard spent a good chunk of his life thinking about this kind of ritualized worship and its degradation for the faith of a community. Anyway. I've read, though I can't for the life of me remember where, that the best thing for Christianity will be the utter destruction of Christendom. I quite agree. > It is rather...what would Christ say, Pharisaical? This would likely be Scribe-ish, given the lawyerly behavior. Luke and John tended to paint the Pharisees in a bad light -- amusingly, often, as stand-ins for the Romans -- but Jesus was sympathetic to the devout, even if he was unsparing in his criticism of hypocrisy.
Prologue 8y ago
And still it is used! Just like it never says anything against stem cell research or homosexuality.
scarecrowbob 8y ago
Yeah, I know, I've read it. One of my fond childhood memories is not being able to buy this cheap, blue, plastic squirtgun because it was Sunday. I'm pretty sure that's not in the bible either, but theocrats gonna do what they do.