5 ms·

I've always been fascinated by the difficulties of translation. There is the issue of expressing the original thought. Already I've edited this post several ti

I've always been fascinated by the difficulties of translation. There is the issue of expressing the original thought. Already I've edited this post several times. Then there is the issue of the surrounding context which will be different for different people. Even for people in the same culture at the same time in the same place. Then the issue of the attitude of the reader. It's not uncommon to get different meanings from the same text on different days. Now with the Biblical text we have copies of text from a different time, culture, and language. I like how this article shows how hard it is to handle even one sentence.

nestorD 8y ago
And that's just meaning. I found that preserving the style can be an equally hard thing to do from a language to another.
- te_platt 8y ago
  As well as sarcasm, emphasis, irony, puns.... I really like this sentence from Douglas Hofstadter: "Every word in this sentence is a gross misspelling of the word 'tomato'." There are so many ways a translator could go with that.
  - tome 8y ago
    Could you share a few of them? Only one springs to my mind ...
JoeAltmaier 8y ago
I'd prefer a translator that just gave me the words and sentences. As a receiver of that information I can learn to do my own interpretation. Imperfectly and only after some thought and experience, but at least the translator won't be 'in the way' changing the message.
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
  I happen to personally agree, not least because I don't necessarily trust the motivations of some alterations, but it is worth remembering that this raises the bar for reading and understanding. There is the difference between something that any lay person can read and get a reasonable understanding, and something that requires you to be a scholar of ancient Greek to understand.
- licebmi__at__ 8y ago
  It's impossible to not have the translator on the way. Even if you reduce the translation to words and sentences, the are plenty of ways to translate a word or a sentence that while being gramatically correct, could alter the meaning, you would still need the translator to pick the right one and not change the message. So, in your translation, you'll still have the main disadvantage of relying on the translator, while gaining nothing.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Yet people in that language do it all the time. I'm thinking I'd rather learn their idiom, than have it spoon-fed to me. Depends on what you're doing I guess
- larkost 8y ago
  I am left jumping to the conclusion that you don't speak a second (living) language. There are very often thoughts in one language that can not be directly expressed in another specific language. I have those problems quite often between English and German (meaning the modern versions). Sometimes you need multiple sentences to explain, even in approximate terms, things that need only a single word in the other language (e.x.: "genau" or "gemutlichkeit" in German, or "subtle" in English). And here I am not talking about idiom (which can change rapidly). And German and English are contemporary languages, with cultures that are driving them together (think all of the U.S. films that are translated into German). Now add that the Bible was written in a few now-dead languages, with 1900-2200 years since it was first written, and you are going to get a lot of differences in thought, much of which requires you to have knowledge that you are not going to be able to come up with thinking through it yourself. Two examples of how fast things can change: 1. When I first went to Germany the word "geil" explicitly meant someone who was attractive, or good at sex. So it was not really part of polite speech. 10 years later I went back to the same part of Germany and the word now was used in normal conversations and meant "really good", without any sexual connotations. 2. If you look at American Pilgrim literature you see a lot of references to "God is great", usually alongside the phrase "God fearing" when talking about religious people. This is because just a few hundred years ago the word "great" in English specifically meant "powerful" in a violent way. Nowadays if you listen to a Christian sermon in the U.S. they will still say "God is great", but will be talking about how gentle and loving God is. Language can move really fast, and thinking that you understand something that someone wrote hundreds of years ago without a good interpreter is unrealistic. There is always going to be an interpreter in the way. And one who just "translates the words" is not doing you any favors.

nestorD 8y ago

And that's just meaning. I found that preserving the style can be an equally hard thing to do from a language to another.

te_platt 8y ago
As well as sarcasm, emphasis, irony, puns.... I really like this sentence from Douglas Hofstadter: "Every word in this sentence is a gross misspelling of the word 'tomato'." There are so many ways a translator could go with that.
- tome 8y ago
  Could you share a few of them? Only one springs to my mind ...

JoeAltmaier 8y ago

I'd prefer a translator that just gave me the words and sentences. As a receiver of that information I can learn to do my own interpretation. Imperfectly and only after some thought and experience, but at least the translator won't be 'in the way' changing the message.

yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
I happen to personally agree, not least because I don't necessarily trust the motivations of some alterations, but it is worth remembering that this raises the bar for reading and understanding. There is the difference between something that any lay person can read and get a reasonable understanding, and something that requires you to be a scholar of ancient Greek to understand.
licebmi__at__ 8y ago
It's impossible to not have the translator on the way. Even if you reduce the translation to words and sentences, the are plenty of ways to translate a word or a sentence that while being gramatically correct, could alter the meaning, you would still need the translator to pick the right one and not change the message. So, in your translation, you'll still have the main disadvantage of relying on the translator, while gaining nothing.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Yet people in that language do it all the time. I'm thinking I'd rather learn their idiom, than have it spoon-fed to me. Depends on what you're doing I guess
larkost 8y ago
I am left jumping to the conclusion that you don't speak a second (living) language. There are very often thoughts in one language that can not be directly expressed in another specific language. I have those problems quite often between English and German (meaning the modern versions). Sometimes you need multiple sentences to explain, even in approximate terms, things that need only a single word in the other language (e.x.: "genau" or "gemutlichkeit" in German, or "subtle" in English). And here I am not talking about idiom (which can change rapidly). And German and English are contemporary languages, with cultures that are driving them together (think all of the U.S. films that are translated into German). Now add that the Bible was written in a few now-dead languages, with 1900-2200 years since it was first written, and you are going to get a lot of differences in thought, much of which requires you to have knowledge that you are not going to be able to come up with thinking through it yourself. Two examples of how fast things can change: 1. When I first went to Germany the word "geil" explicitly meant someone who was attractive, or good at sex. So it was not really part of polite speech. 10 years later I went back to the same part of Germany and the word now was used in normal conversations and meant "really good", without any sexual connotations. 2. If you look at American Pilgrim literature you see a lot of references to "God is great", usually alongside the phrase "God fearing" when talking about religious people. This is because just a few hundred years ago the word "great" in English specifically meant "powerful" in a violent way. Nowadays if you listen to a Christian sermon in the U.S. they will still say "God is great", but will be talking about how gentle and loving God is. Language can move really fast, and thinking that you understand something that someone wrote hundreds of years ago without a good interpreter is unrealistic. There is always going to be an interpreter in the way. And one who just "translates the words" is not doing you any favors.