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There is a big "download all my data" button right on your profile page, which instantly gives you a nice JSON dump. As for "custom proprietary protocols", the

There is a big "download all my data" button right on your profile page, which instantly gives you a nice JSON dump. As for "custom proprietary protocols", the entire Spectrum platform appears to be FOSS, released under the BSD 3-Clause license [1]. 1: https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum

black_puppydog 8y ago
Facebook has such a download button. In fact, anyone who wants to do business in the EU needs to have one, really. Does that mean there are no walled gardens on the web any longer? And without a token from spectrum, the apps will be limited to "local" operation. Fat load of use cases that has for a chat application. @TeMPOral has it right: it stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Hangouts chat was a walled garden, even though you could connect via Jabber, and download your stuff via takeout.
- cheriot 8y ago
  I think you're ignoring that this is FOSS. What are they really depending on Spectrum for? Download the data, run the software yourself, and you no longer need them. The one exception seems to be that it's hosted at a Spectrum owned domain, https://spectrum.chat/apollo https://spectrum.chat/apollo.
  - black_puppydog 8y ago
    For something that is used to connect to people, having access to the source code is necessary to trust the software to do what it's saying, but doesn't make the platform open. Chat, as any platform for communication, is going to have network effects, and that's what all of these "we're also slack but not" products aim for. That's the only reason I ever interact with slack or facebook. Not because I want to (I don't) or because I love their apps so much (I don't) but because some things/people are simply only to be reached there.
    - cheriot 8y ago
      If I'm in 5 chat rooms, does it make that much of a difference if they're on one platform or 3? Messaging and social networks have much bigger network effects than slack and spectrum.
- basil-rash 8y ago
  > It stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Can you provide an example of someone who does this right in your book? All instances are hosted by someone -- unless I'm reading you wrong it seems like the only thing that would satisfy you is a chat platform built on the blockchain.
  - madeofpalk 8y ago
    Usually if its a 'someone', then its going to be a walled garden. Take for example podcasting: podcasts generally speaking aren't walled gardens - its a completely open protocol based on RSS. No locking. Spotify Podcasts, is a walled garden.
    - basil-rash 8y ago
      Does this mean you are categorically opposed to the idea of a company hosting a discussion service for users of the the product that said company provides?
      - madeofpalk 8y ago
        No. I never said anything about being against a walled garden (I love my iPhone).
- elcomet 8y ago
  But what do you mean by local? This is designed for local chat, exactly like slack. It is designed to chat with a community (an open source project, or maybe a company). In slack you need to register to every "team" you want to join, so how is it exactly the same to self hosted spectrum and ask users to register on your instance. So it is a public garden, but you can take all your plants and plant then to your own backyard. It is not walled.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  My core issue isn't along the lines of centralized vs. decentralized. It's about things like: - Do I own the data? Can I get all the data back easily, in usable format? - Can I interoperate with it with my own tools? I have my preferences that generally fly in the face of modern UX trends, and being forced to use the officially sanctioned app is inherently limiting. - What's the migration path? If the current gardener gets bored with the service, can the garden be "restarted" under someone's else control, with all the data migrated? Decentralization is inherently inefficient, so I don't mind if some things are centralized. It's how they're centralized, how the ownership and control is distributed, that matters.

black_puppydog 8y ago

Facebook has such a download button. In fact, anyone who wants to do business in the EU needs to have one, really. Does that mean there are no walled gardens on the web any longer? And without a token from spectrum, the apps will be limited to "local" operation. Fat load of use cases that has for a chat application. @TeMPOral has it right: it stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Hangouts chat was a walled garden, even though you could connect via Jabber, and download your stuff via takeout.

cheriot 8y ago
I think you're ignoring that this is FOSS. What are they really depending on Spectrum for? Download the data, run the software yourself, and you no longer need them. The one exception seems to be that it's hosted at a Spectrum owned domain, https://spectrum.chat/apollo https://spectrum.chat/apollo.
- black_puppydog 8y ago
  For something that is used to connect to people, having access to the source code is necessary to trust the software to do what it's saying, but doesn't make the platform open. Chat, as any platform for communication, is going to have network effects, and that's what all of these "we're also slack but not" products aim for. That's the only reason I ever interact with slack or facebook. Not because I want to (I don't) or because I love their apps so much (I don't) but because some things/people are simply only to be reached there.
  - cheriot 8y ago
    If I'm in 5 chat rooms, does it make that much of a difference if they're on one platform or 3? Messaging and social networks have much bigger network effects than slack and spectrum.
basil-rash 8y ago
> It stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Can you provide an example of someone who does this right in your book? All instances are hosted by someone -- unless I'm reading you wrong it seems like the only thing that would satisfy you is a chat platform built on the blockchain.
- madeofpalk 8y ago
  Usually if its a 'someone', then its going to be a walled garden. Take for example podcasting: podcasts generally speaking aren't walled gardens - its a completely open protocol based on RSS. No locking. Spotify Podcasts, is a walled garden.
  - basil-rash 8y ago
    Does this mean you are categorically opposed to the idea of a company hosting a discussion service for users of the the product that said company provides?
    - madeofpalk 8y ago
      No. I never said anything about being against a walled garden (I love my iPhone).
elcomet 8y ago
But what do you mean by local? This is designed for local chat, exactly like slack. It is designed to chat with a community (an open source project, or maybe a company). In slack you need to register to every "team" you want to join, so how is it exactly the same to self hosted spectrum and ask users to register on your instance. So it is a public garden, but you can take all your plants and plant then to your own backyard. It is not walled.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
My core issue isn't along the lines of centralized vs. decentralized. It's about things like: - Do I own the data? Can I get all the data back easily, in usable format? - Can I interoperate with it with my own tools? I have my preferences that generally fly in the face of modern UX trends, and being forced to use the officially sanctioned app is inherently limiting. - What's the migration path? If the current gardener gets bored with the service, can the garden be "restarted" under someone's else control, with all the data migrated? Decentralization is inherently inefficient, so I don't mind if some things are centralized. It's how they're centralized, how the ownership and control is distributed, that matters.