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In which sense do you mean "walled garden"? The article actually discusses moving away from Slack because it is a walled garden, which to them means that the co

In which sense do you mean "walled garden"? The article actually discusses moving away from Slack because it is a walled garden, which to them means that the content inside Slack is only accessible/discoverable via Slack - versus Spectrum, which is indexed by search engines.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
A garden doesn't stop being walled if the walls are glass, and thus transparent. Walls are about control of what's inside of them, including keeping users locked in when they get inside. Using custom proprietary protocols and not giving an easy way to get at your own data are two common aspects. EDIT: There are degrees to being walled garden. Slack is one, pure and simple. My scanning of Spectrum's site did not reveal ease of export or FOSS mentioned anywhere on the main page, or on the features subpage, so I immediately assumed it's pretty much as walled as Slack. Now that other replies mention it, I did find a Github icon at the very bottom, linking to some repositories, so maybe the walls aren't as high and thick as I assumed. Is being hosted on a central server operated by a third party, without federation features, a wall? Technically, yes. But a small one, relatively easy to scale. Personally, as long as I can get all my data out, and as long as I can easily interoperate with it from outside of the garden, I'm comfortable with that. Closed protocols are essentially barbed wire.
- basil-rash 8y ago
  There is a big "download all my data" button right on your profile page, which instantly gives you a nice JSON dump. As for "custom proprietary protocols", the entire Spectrum platform appears to be FOSS, released under the BSD 3-Clause license [1]. 1: https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum
  - black_puppydog 8y ago
    Facebook has such a download button. In fact, anyone who wants to do business in the EU needs to have one, really. Does that mean there are no walled gardens on the web any longer? And without a token from spectrum, the apps will be limited to "local" operation. Fat load of use cases that has for a chat application. @TeMPOral has it right: it stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Hangouts chat was a walled garden, even though you could connect via Jabber, and download your stuff via takeout.
    - cheriot 8y ago
      I think you're ignoring that this is FOSS. What are they really depending on Spectrum for? Download the data, run the software yourself, and you no longer need them. The one exception seems to be that it's hosted at a Spectrum owned domain, https://spectrum.chat/apollo https://spectrum.chat/apollo.
      - black_puppydog 8y ago
        For something that is used to connect to people, having access to the source code is necessary to trust the software to do what it's saying, but doesn't make the platform open. Chat, as any platform for communication, is going to have network effects, and that's what all of these "we're also slack but not" products aim for. That's the only reason I ever interact with slack or facebook. Not because I want to (I don't) or because I love their apps so much (I don't) but because some things/people are simply only to be reached there.
        cheriot 8y ago
        If I'm in 5 chat rooms, does it make that much of a difference if they're on one platform or 3? Messaging and social networks have much bigger network effects than slack and spectrum.
    - basil-rash 8y ago
      > It stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Can you provide an example of someone who does this right in your book? All instances are hosted by someone -- unless I'm reading you wrong it seems like the only thing that would satisfy you is a chat platform built on the blockchain.
      - madeofpalk 8y ago
        Usually if its a 'someone', then its going to be a walled garden. Take for example podcasting: podcasts generally speaking aren't walled gardens - its a completely open protocol based on RSS. No locking. Spotify Podcasts, is a walled garden.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

A garden doesn't stop being walled if the walls are glass, and thus transparent. Walls are about control of what's inside of them, including keeping users locked in when they get inside. Using custom proprietary protocols and not giving an easy way to get at your own data are two common aspects. EDIT: There are degrees to being walled garden. Slack is one, pure and simple. My scanning of Spectrum's site did not reveal ease of export or FOSS mentioned anywhere on the main page, or on the features subpage, so I immediately assumed it's pretty much as walled as Slack. Now that other replies mention it, I did find a Github icon at the very bottom, linking to some repositories, so maybe the walls aren't as high and thick as I assumed. Is being hosted on a central server operated by a third party, without federation features, a wall? Technically, yes. But a small one, relatively easy to scale. Personally, as long as I can get all my data out, and as long as I can easily interoperate with it from outside of the garden, I'm comfortable with that. Closed protocols are essentially barbed wire.

basil-rash 8y ago
There is a big "download all my data" button right on your profile page, which instantly gives you a nice JSON dump. As for "custom proprietary protocols", the entire Spectrum platform appears to be FOSS, released under the BSD 3-Clause license [1]. 1: https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum
- black_puppydog 8y ago
  Facebook has such a download button. In fact, anyone who wants to do business in the EU needs to have one, really. Does that mean there are no walled gardens on the web any longer? And without a token from spectrum, the apps will be limited to "local" operation. Fat load of use cases that has for a chat application. @TeMPOral has it right: it stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Hangouts chat was a walled garden, even though you could connect via Jabber, and download your stuff via takeout.
  - cheriot 8y ago
    I think you're ignoring that this is FOSS. What are they really depending on Spectrum for? Download the data, run the software yourself, and you no longer need them. The one exception seems to be that it's hosted at a Spectrum owned domain, https://spectrum.chat/apollo https://spectrum.chat/apollo.
    - black_puppydog 8y ago
      For something that is used to connect to people, having access to the source code is necessary to trust the software to do what it's saying, but doesn't make the platform open. Chat, as any platform for communication, is going to have network effects, and that's what all of these "we're also slack but not" products aim for. That's the only reason I ever interact with slack or facebook. Not because I want to (I don't) or because I love their apps so much (I don't) but because some things/people are simply only to be reached there.
      - cheriot 8y ago
        If I'm in 5 chat rooms, does it make that much of a difference if they're on one platform or 3? Messaging and social networks have much bigger network effects than slack and spectrum.
  - basil-rash 8y ago
    > It stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Can you provide an example of someone who does this right in your book? All instances are hosted by someone -- unless I'm reading you wrong it seems like the only thing that would satisfy you is a chat platform built on the blockchain.
    - madeofpalk 8y ago
      Usually if its a 'someone', then its going to be a walled garden. Take for example podcasting: podcasts generally speaking aren't walled gardens - its a completely open protocol based on RSS. No locking. Spotify Podcasts, is a walled garden.